Positive vs. Negative; Reinforcement vs. Punishment

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Postby Malli » January 24th, 2007, 10:35 pm

I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work :|
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
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Postby katiek0417 » January 24th, 2007, 11:27 pm

On January 24 2007, 9:35 PM, Malli wrote:I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work :|


Do you have a "watch me" command
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Postby a-bull » January 24th, 2007, 11:44 pm

On January 24 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 24 2007, 9:35 PM, Malli wrote:I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work :|


Do you have a "watch me" command


That's what I was going to say, too. :wink: My favorite command for getting attention.
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Postby Malli » January 25th, 2007, 1:16 am

not exactly, I've had trouble marking it and making it clear to him what I want.

He does know that he is supposed to watch me when I work him, I think.

I kind of thought of a way to start it when we play fetch (wich isn't often enough), since he is getting older he will hold a sit or "wait" while I throw the ball until it lands and slows down (I'm cruciate paranoid), I tried waiting until he looked at me to release him to go and get the ball :| He seemed to figure it out...

I have ALWAYS had trouble maintaining his focus... "formal" heal has been a big issue and I think its why I haven't been able to smooth out all the rough edges and perfect it.
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07
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Postby a-bull » January 25th, 2007, 12:08 pm

On January 25 2007, Malli wrote:not exactly, I've had trouble marking it and making it clear to him what I want.

He does know that he is supposed to watch me when I work him, I think.

I kind of thought of a way to start it when we play fetch (wich isn't often enough), since he is getting older he will hold a sit or "wait" while I throw the ball until it lands and slows down (I'm cruciate paranoid), I tried waiting until he looked at me to release him to go and get the ball :| He seemed to figure it out...

I have ALWAYS had trouble maintaining his focus... "formal" heal has been a big issue and I think its why I haven't been able to smooth out all the rough edges and perfect it.


Take a treat, and as you say "watch me" put the treat to your nose. The minute he makes eye contact with you give him the reward. You can even mark the behavior with a "Yes!" or a clicker if you use one, (I don't, although I like clicker training). Keep doing it, making him hold his gaze longer and longer. What should happen eventually is anytime, anywhere you tell him to "watch me," he should immediately look to you.

This command works so well in so many situations. Oh, and same concept we talked about earlier---I STILL will give a treat now 'n then for performing the command just to etch it in stone because it's such an important one. :wink:
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Postby katiek0417 » January 25th, 2007, 7:53 pm

I also train the dog sitting in front at first....and i typically like to use food (that is human edible) so that I can put it in my mouth eventually and have the dog catch it....I'm getting ready to work dogs, so more on this later...
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Postby katiek0417 » January 25th, 2007, 9:35 pm

Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....
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Postby a-bull » January 25th, 2007, 10:35 pm

On January 25 2007, katiek0417 wrote:Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....


I think my way was easier, lol . . .
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
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Postby katiek0417 » January 25th, 2007, 11:06 pm

On January 25 2007, 9:35 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 25 2007, katiek0417 wrote:Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....


I think my way was easier, lol . . .


I have to have an attention heel for PSA, so this was the only way I could get it out of Sacha...
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Postby Malli » January 26th, 2007, 2:23 am

they're all unique :D

I say you're BOTH right, for your dogs :wink:
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07
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Postby a-bull » January 26th, 2007, 9:22 am

On January 25 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 25 2007, 9:35 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 25 2007, katiek0417 wrote:Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....


I think my way was easier, lol . . .


I have to have an attention heel for PSA, so this was the only way I could get it out of Sacha...


Hey, whatever works! :)
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
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Postby a-bull » January 26th, 2007, 9:23 am

On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:they're all unique :D

I say you're BOTH right, for your dogs :wink:


Let's face it, in the end, who's teaching who?? :wink:
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
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Postby Malli » January 26th, 2007, 1:19 pm

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either.
_______________________________________
"You didn't know of the magical powers of the break stick? It's up there with genies and Harry Potter as far as magic levels go." SisMorphine 01/07/07
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Postby a-bull » January 26th, 2007, 1:22 pm

On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:


Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, lol . . .
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Postby katiek0417 » January 26th, 2007, 3:11 pm

On January 26 2007, 12:22 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:


Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, lol . . .


Do you have a poop eating issue as well?
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Postby a-bull » January 26th, 2007, 4:55 pm

On January 26 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 26 2007, 12:22 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:


Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, lol . . .


Do you have a poop eating issue as well?


Oddly, not until they freeze, lol.
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
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Postby katiek0417 » January 26th, 2007, 6:47 pm

On January 26 2007, 3:55 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 26 2007, 12:22 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:


Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, lol . . .


Do you have a poop eating issue as well?


Oddly, not until they freeze, lol.


OHHHH...I'm really not sure what's worse!!! LOL
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Postby a-bull » January 26th, 2007, 6:57 pm

On January 26 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 26 2007, 3:55 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, katiek0417 wrote:
On January 26 2007, 12:22 PM, a-bull wrote:
On January 26 2007, Malli wrote:well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S :lol3:


Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, lol . . .


Do you have a poop eating issue as well?


Oddly, not until they freeze, lol.


OHHHH...I'm really not sure what's worse!!! LOL


Apparently according to our dogs, none of the above, lol!
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
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