Concern about Knuckles

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Postby luvmyangels » December 2nd, 2006, 1:46 pm

This can go in two different topics which are Nutrition & Health and probably Training & Behavior. But for now I will start it here.

On Thanksgiving night I was sitting down and Knuckles sat in front of me. My son was a little sugared out and my sister wasn't helping the situation. My son came over and was laying on Knuckles. Knuckles then growled at him so I told my son to get off of him. At that point Knuckles then snapped at his face. He did not bite him since I screamed at him. I grabbed Knuckles and gave him a good shake down and my son was screamed at and put to bed. Knuckles has never ever growled or snapped at anyone. That same night my older dog Teddy growled and snapped at my sister when she tried to hug him. So I am not sure if there was something going on due to the stress of the holiday or what. Or Knuckles has had problems with his hips in the past and maybe it could be that my son leaned on his hips and that was the issue with Knuckles. I s/w someone who told me to get him vet checked and have him assessed. I already s/w my trainer who told me to get him a clearance first and we will go from there. I am taking him Wednesday night to the vet that diagnosed him with a hip issue. I am so on the fence with Knuckles. As I was writing this message he just pee'd all over the top landing of my stairs. The only one that was anywhere near him was my son who was coming out of the bathroom. Knuckles used to have issues with submissive urination but it started from my bedroom where I am sitting.

I am concerned because both my vet and trainer told me when I got Knuckles that since I had no genetic background on him that if we would see a shift in his behavior it would be anywhere from 12 months to 18 months. Knuckles is almost 17 months.

When this happened two days later we were leaving for vacation and we just got back yesterday and the pet sitter said they were all very good while we were away.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that we just moved a month and a half ago.

All Knuckles has been doing is kissing up to me but he knows I am unsure of him. Whenever he is in my presence and in the presence of the kids he is put in a down stay position on his bed. Which my trainer said he should only be put in a down position especially if it is his hips. The trainer also said if there is a stressful situation that he should be crated which I am doing too.

Another thought that has crossed my mind is his food. He is currently on Solid Gold Wolf King. Their coats look beautiful but has anyone heard anything bad or indifferent about it. He had that allergic reaction recently but I think it was unrelated since it went away with Benadryl.

Any thoughts?
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
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Postby mnp13 » December 2nd, 2006, 1:59 pm

I think the main part of this post is a training issue, so I moved it.

Strange situation + hyper kid + pluss major stress + pain from being jumped on = unhappy dog. I'm sorry he growled and snapped, but obviously, Knuckles could have connected if he wanted to. He didn't want to, but he wanted to communicate that he had had enough.

Though I understand your correction, it may have been to much for him, creating the submissive peeing around your son. I'm also sure that your body language around him because of being unsure is being read by your dog and that is making it worse.

I posted about a similar problem with Riggs here: http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7315 Some of the suggestions given there may help you with Knuckles.

Before this happened, how did he normally interact with the kids? Are your dogs crate trained?
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Postby luvmyangels » December 2nd, 2006, 2:04 pm

On December 02 2006, mnp13 wrote:I think the main part of this post is a training issue, so I moved it.

Strange situation + hyper kid + pluss major stress + pain from being jumped on = unhappy dog. I'm sorry he growled and snapped, but obviously, Knuckles could have connected if he wanted to. He didn't want to, but he wanted to communicate that he had had enough.

Though I understand your correction, it may have been to much for him, creating the submissive peeing around your son. I'm also sure that your body language around him because of being unsure is being read by your dog and that is making it worse.

I posted about a similar problem with Riggs here: http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7315 Some of the suggestions given there may help you with Knuckles.

Before this happened, how did he normally interact with the kids? Are your dogs crate trained?


Knuckles has been phenomenal with the kids. He loves them and they love him. He has been crated since I got him as a baby. He has his own crate with a warm comfy blanket.

I will check out your post.
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
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Postby Romanwild » December 3rd, 2006, 10:38 am

I think this type of thing is impossible to diagnose over the internet. Can you find some qualifies trainers or behaviorists to help you in person?
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Postby luvmyangels » December 3rd, 2006, 11:12 am

On December 03 2006, Romanwild wrote:I think this type of thing is impossible to diagnose over the internet. Can you find some qualifies trainers or behaviorists to help you in person?


I have a trainer with whom I trust and used over the last 8 years and I need to get a medical clearance before we can go forward.

But here is a question which someone brought up to me. Should I go the vet that diagnosed Knuckles had a hip problem or should I go to someone to get a 2nd opinion. The reason I ask is that an associate from my vets office never diagnosed it but I knew there was an issue. So I took him to another vet that did diagnose it and gave him herbal supplements. Any thoughts?
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
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Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby luvmyangels » December 4th, 2006, 11:28 pm

I went to the vet earlier tonight. The vet and I had a really long talk before she looked him over to determine whether or not he should still stay in our home. She felt at this point he should be ok. There is definitely something going on with his back when she touched it he stopped breathing and turned to look at her. She said you can see his back is up high and his legs are straight but she said he is still growing since his plates weren't closed yet. But also said his back was off. We are having x-rays done on him on Monday. They are doing a pelvic and lumbar x-ray which I got an estimate for which he will have to be put under for and it will cost around $300. She told me to start giving him K9 Conquer which I just bought there because she thought it would be good to start shoveling it into him. She also felt I should lower his protein level and be sure I had rescue remedy in the house.
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
I live here
 
Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby mnp13 » December 4th, 2006, 11:45 pm

On December 04 2006, 22:28, luvmyangels wrote:I went to the vet earlier tonight. The vet and I had a really long talk before she looked him over to determine whether or not he should still stay in our home.

I don't understand this? Is your vet a dog trainer as well as being a medical doctor?

She also felt I should lower his protein level and be sure I had rescue remedy in the house.

I understand the rescue remedy, but why would you lower his protein?
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Postby luvmyangels » December 4th, 2006, 11:54 pm

On December 04 2006, mnp13 wrote:
On December 04 2006, 22:28, luvmyangels wrote:I went to the vet earlier tonight. The vet and I had a really long talk before she looked him over to determine whether or not he should still stay in our home.

I don't understand this? Is your vet a dog trainer as well as being a medical doctor?

She also felt I should lower his protein level and be sure I had rescue remedy in the house.

I understand the rescue remedy, but why would you lower his protein?


She has training experience but I had told her once I got a medical clearance that I was going to take him to my trainer.

She was concerned about his extremely high energy level and the way he was stressing while there.
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
I live here
 
Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby Marinepits » December 5th, 2006, 8:52 am

On Mon, Dec 04 2006, 10:28 PM, luvmyangels wrote:I went to the vet earlier tonight. The vet and I had a really long talk before she looked him over to determine whether or not he should still stay in our home. She felt at this point he should be ok. There is definitely something going on with his back when she touched it he stopped breathing and turned to look at her. She said you can see his back is up high and his legs are straight but she said he is still growing since his plates weren't closed yet. But also said his back was off. We are having x-rays done on him on Monday. They are doing a pelvic and lumbar x-ray which I got an estimate for which he will have to be put under for and it will cost around $300. She told me to start giving him K9 Conquer which I just bought there because she thought it would be good to start shoveling it into him. She also felt I should lower his protein level and be sure I had rescue remedy in the house.


Good luck with the x-rays -- I'll send good thoughts your way! :wink:

Keep us posted!
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Postby SisMorphine » December 5th, 2006, 9:36 am

What is K9 Conquer? I've never heard if it . . .


And one of the vets I used to work with, in fact one of my favorite vets, had training experience. But whenever I heard her dole out training advice it all completely wrong, made me cringe.

And for once I agree with lowering a dog's protein. LOL! Though obviously not a great long term idea, if he did hurt his back and you need to keep him calm feeding him more fillers and less protein will make him lazy as hell. Though I would do that as a last resort, and I would start to put 10 drops of RR in his water each day (I've found that RR works best when used over a period of time and NOT as a quick fix), and also get some Valerian Root to add to his food.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby luvmyangels » December 5th, 2006, 5:23 pm

On December 05 2006, SisMorphine wrote:What is K9 Conquer? I've never heard if it . . .


And one of the vets I used to work with, in fact one of my favorite vets, had training experience. But whenever I heard her dole out training advice it all completely wrong, made me cringe.

And for once I agree with lowering a dog's protein. LOL! Though obviously not a great long term idea, if he did hurt his back and you need to keep him calm feeding him more fillers and less protein will make him lazy as hell. Though I would do that as a last resort, and I would start to put 10 drops of RR in his water each day (I've found that RR works best when used over a period of time and NOT as a quick fix), and also get some Valerian Root to add to his food.


Hope this link will work. My vet only had Capsule form but with a little cheese Knuckles will eat anything.

http://www.pet-dog-cat-supply-store.com ... ct_id=4325

In speaking with my trainer she suggested that I get him some Arnica. I found Arnica Montana and was thinking it may be the best version to give to him. Any thoughts?
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
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Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby luvmyangels » December 5th, 2006, 5:50 pm

When I was at the vet last night I also noticed a spot on his head which I was concerned may have been a start of demodectic mange. I just heard from the vet and thankfully it came back negative.
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
I live here
 
Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby mnp13 » December 5th, 2006, 7:00 pm

wow... you might not want to go all gang busters on this. If you add 10 things all at the same time and he has a reaction to somthing you're going to have to take him off everything and start over anyway.

Try one thing, give it some time to work, then try something else.
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Postby SisMorphine » December 5th, 2006, 7:16 pm

Re: Arnica
The use of Arnica (as far as I know it) is homeopathic. Rescue Remedy and Valarian are holistic. Trust me, there's a difference . . . which I doubt I'll be able to concisely explain but I'll give a quick jab at it.

In Homeopathy you can have two people come in with the same exact symptoms: a fever of 100 and vomiting, yet they will go home with two completely different remedies. That is because homeopathy treats the body as a whole, so to decide what remedy to give a person they must also know other things about the person from things like other illnesses, to what side of the bed they sleep on. Seriously. So for one person/animal Arnica may be perfect for, say, calming them down or easy pain, for another it would have a completely different effect. Homeopathic medicine is holistic, but not all holistic remedies are homeopathic.

Now with Valerian (a root that is crushed into powder to be used as a supplement) and Rescue Remedy (a flower essence) they are used for a few specific things. Personally I would skip the Arnica unless you bring him to a homeopath and they tell you to use it. I would do the Valerian, the Rescue Remedy, or both depending on if you see him calming down or not. I have personally found Valerian to work more on my muscles and physical relaxation and the Rescue Remedy to work more on my mental relaxation, but it can affect other people, and animals, slightly differently, but not to the intense degree of difference that I homeopathic remedy can.


I sure hope that made sense. Man am I tired today!!
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby luvmyangels » December 5th, 2006, 7:25 pm

On December 05 2006, SisMorphine wrote:Re: Arnica
The use of Arnica (as far as I know it) is homeopathic. Rescue Remedy and Valarian are holistic. Trust me, there's a difference . . . which I doubt I'll be able to concisely explain but I'll give a quick jab at it.

In Homeopathy you can have two people come in with the same exact symptoms: a fever of 100 and vomiting, yet they will go home with two completely different remedies. That is because homeopathy treats the body as a whole, so to decide what remedy to give a person they must also know other things about the person from things like other illnesses, to what side of the bed they sleep on. Seriously. So for one person/animal Arnica may be perfect for, say, calming them down or easy pain, for another it would have a completely different effect. Homeopathic medicine is holistic, but not all holistic remedies are homeopathic.

Now with Valerian (a root that is crushed into powder to be used as a supplement) and Rescue Remedy (a flower essence) they are used for a few specific things. Personally I would skip the Arnica unless you bring him to a homeopath and they tell you to use it. I would do the Valerian, the Rescue Remedy, or both depending on if you see him calming down or not. I have personally found Valerian to work more on my muscles and physical relaxation and the Rescue Remedy to work more on my mental relaxation, but it can affect other people, and animals, slightly differently, but not to the intense degree of difference that I homeopathic remedy can.


I sure hope that made sense. Man am I tired today!!


Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.
I am "The Rat Queen".

Have a great day!! :)

Mary Ann & The Furry Bunch:
Cookie & Knuckles
Rabbit: Butterscotch
The Rattie Bunch: Girls: Noodle & Raisin Boys: Gus, Melvin, Oliver, & Toby
luvmyangels
I live here
 
Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby SisMorphine » December 5th, 2006, 7:40 pm

Oh, I wanted to add that if you do use Arnica, or any homeopathic remedy, it will NOT cause any harm, due to the way it is made (smallest dose possible), if it is used but isn't the correct remedy for the ailment you're trying it for. It just won't work :)
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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