Prong Question

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 25th, 2006, 8:11 am

I received a copy of a video that teaches you to walk your dog on a loose leash in less than 10 minutes. Shockingly enough, it's not full of BS. I watched it, and then went out and bought Inara a properly-fitting prong (the lady at the store before had me get her a huge one - I didn't know better). I practiced the techniques in the video which are essentially to turn and run the other way every time she pulls or stops paying attention to me. I had tried this technique before, but now that I have a properly-fitting prong, and have actually seen it done (I learn by watching), it's working. Inara walks like a dream if her prong is on and I whip around a couple times. I'm sure as I keep practicing she'll get even better. It broke my heart doing it though 'cause she actually yelped a few times. I've NEVER made my puppy-girl yelp. :( But the guy who does the video says they're not actually in pain, it's just their way of acknowledging that they've received a good correction.

Anyway, here's my question (it always takes me so long!): Inara's neck was red yesterday evening on the bottom. It's fine again today, but it looked sensitive last night. Is it just showing up more obviously because she's white? Or do I need to lessen my corrections? I don't feel like I'm being cruel. :| Or should I just go out and get those rubber tips that cover the prong? What do you all think?

And just so you know, the website is http://www.dogproblems.com , and the trainer's name is Adam Katz. Looking at his website, it's one of those I'd always scoff at because it seems too good to be true. But damn, it actually has really good info once you download the book or join!

As always, thanks for any answers/feedback to my questions!!!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby mnp13 » September 25th, 2006, 11:32 am

lol

That's the way I've been telling people to do it for about three years now. :D

I'm glad it's working!!! Her neck was probably a little sore, yes. However I wouldn't bother with the prog covers, etc. A few more lessons and you won't need to correct her anyway. In a few weeks, start transitioning off of the prong.

Important note: do NOT put the prong on and then head straight out the door. This will make your dog collar smart and you'll have a hell of a time weaning her off of her prong. Put it on an hour before and leave it on an hour after.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 25th, 2006, 12:55 pm

Actually, I've been leaving it on for most of the day. Is that okay? It doesn't seem to bother her and I figure she definitely won't get collar smart this way.

I know that's how you've been telling people to do it!!! But I had to actually see it to know exactly what to do. I'm very pleased with the progress thus far. I may actually begin using the prong to proof her on other things (sit, down, etc), as well as to teach her that eating out of the cat box is bad.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby mnp13 » September 25th, 2006, 1:44 pm

I know, it was just funny the way you posted it. Lots of people need to see to do something. I need to see and then do under supervision.

How do you use the prong to teach her to stay out of the litterbox?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 25th, 2006, 2:17 pm

Well, the trainer at this site said as long as you "bridge" the behavior with the correction the dog will understand it. So if you see your dog doing something, but cannot get there the split second she is doing it, you say no no no no etc all the way there and then pop the leash. You're supposed to keep a 1 ft leash on the prong at all times while training. The no no no no all the way there is supposed to keep the dog aware of what they did wrong. I don't know. It's worth a try. I don't have a 1 ft leash so I'll probably just start leaving her regular leash on in the house. If it keeps her from dining on kitty poo, or chasing the cats, it'll be worth it. What do you think? He says that if you're correcting properly, it should only take 3-4 corrections before the dog stops doing something.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby mnp13 » September 25th, 2006, 2:26 pm

If you are correcting properly, it should only take ONE correction. But that doesn't happen for even the best of trainers.

I don't agree with the no no no no no, but that's just me.
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Postby DemoDick » September 25th, 2006, 7:10 pm

Let's not sugar coar it; the dog is yelping because it is in pain. However, if the correction is fairly delivered the yelping is not a big deal.

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 25th, 2006, 10:08 pm

I believe it was fairly delivered - I think. It just killed me 'cause I've never been the cause of my puppy-girl's pain! However, I took her out just a few minutes ago for a potty break/walk around the apartment complex, and as soon as I said "heel" she fell into place. It was actually kinda creepy! Cool, though. Very cool. Now I just want her to start looking up at me constantly like the really well-trained dogs do! I shouldn't get demanding though, as this is already such a drastic change.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby jlewin » September 25th, 2006, 10:31 pm

i have to add that saying no no no no no all the way there is definately not going to do the trick. i don't want to sound rude but i don't want you to make such a simple mistake that could undermine your training. that is likely to be such a confusing signal to your dog that when you finally show up to deliver the correction it definately won't be viewed as fair. don't risk that. create a managable situation where she can get into the litter box but you are right there to say "no" and correct her. try to keep the litter box out of reach until you can do this on 3 or 4 different occassions and consider her fairly well proofed (i know this may be hard or impossible) also you can develop a very effective "no" by using your correction word, giver her a split second chance to stop and then deliver your physical correction. do this a few times and you will be amazed how well she starts to respond to vocal correction alone.
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Postby DemoDick » September 25th, 2006, 10:49 pm

you can develop a very effective "no" by using your correction word, giver her a split second chance to stop and then deliver your physical correction.


If the dog is to understand what she is being corrected for, then she needs to be corrected while she is engaging in the behavior, not after she stops. If you tell her "No" and she stops, then she is obeying. If you say "No" and she ignores you, then immediately deliver the correction.

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Postby mnp13 » September 25th, 2006, 11:40 pm

On September 25 2006, 22:08, pitbullmamaliz wrote: Now I just want her to start looking up at me constantly like the really well-trained dogs do! I shouldn't get demanding though, as this is already such a drastic change.


Baby steps!!!!!!!!!

Normally, you teach the attention heel from the start. However, I think the following method will work for you. It is exactly what I am doing with Ruby, Riggs was different.

The "attention heel" is a step past the "heel". If you really want to start that, wait until she is reliable at the heel. At the same time (and separately) teach her the "watch" command. Now, tell her to watch while she is heeling.

I'll tell you something though (just between you and me) I hate the attention heel. I want my dog to look where she is going when she walks, not look at me. Ruby tracks me very well in just a regular forward looking heel. But the attention heel is "flashy" so I'm working on it for her CD.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 26th, 2006, 8:48 am

Thanks for the feedback re: no no no no to bridge the behavior. Sounded too good to be true! :wink: I think I may just have to set her up at the cat box and then correct her right there like you guys suggested.
I know the attention heel is probably not necessary, but you're right - it's flashy and looks impressive! The only thing I'm hoping to compete with her in is flyball (we're doing lessons now), but I think it just shows such extreme obedience it reflects well on our breed. I'll have to work on "watch me" - she'll glance at me when I say it but she won't hold my gaze.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby jlewin » September 26th, 2006, 9:46 am

demo...thank you for clarifying what i meant i should have been more clear.
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Postby DemoDick » September 26th, 2006, 1:07 pm

demo...thank you for clarifying what i meant i should have been more clear.


At first I thought you were saying to correct after the dog stops going for the cat box. After I posted I realized what you really meant.

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Postby jlewin » September 26th, 2006, 1:08 pm

if you misunderstood others probably did too. thanks again for clarifying that.
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Postby Romanwild » September 26th, 2006, 3:53 pm

After three years of failing on loose leesh walking I accomplished it within 2 sessions basically with a bonker.

I used a prong for a long time and it was great for teaching them to ignore other dogs. I wasn't good at teaching the loose leash with it however.

You got to have a somewhat open mind for this stuff that's for sure.

Congrats on the loose leash!

P.S. No prongs for 3 weekes now! Woo Hoo.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 26th, 2006, 3:54 pm

I still want to see video of this bonker in work!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby Romanwild » September 26th, 2006, 3:55 pm

I don't know if one exsists.

Did you go the the web site?
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Postby mnp13 » September 26th, 2006, 8:48 pm

The correct sized prong is essential as well.
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Postby DemoDick » September 26th, 2006, 9:36 pm

After three years of failing on loose leesh walking I accomplished it within 2 sessions basically with a bonker.

I used a prong for a long time and it was great for teaching them to ignore other dogs. I wasn't good at teaching the loose leash with it however. After three years of failing on loose leesh walking I accomplished it within 2 sessions basically with a bonker.

I used a prong for a long time and it was great for teaching them to ignore other dogs. I wasn't good at teaching the loose leash with it however.


Important note: She's asking about teaching the dog to heel, which is different than teaching the dog to walk on a loose leash. The bonker may work as a correction for pulling (self-rewarding behavior), but if the dog doesn't know where heel is, bonking him for not being there is only going to confuse him.

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