Good bye Sam

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Postby Sue » September 17th, 2006, 3:13 pm

:goodStuff: I agree 100%.
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Postby mnp13 » September 17th, 2006, 10:16 pm

I'm so sorry to hear this!

I would definately speak to Cheryl before you make a decision. But it sounds like you have no choice but to remove her from your house. I'm glad you have somewhere for her to go.

Many dogs behave "aggressively" at the door when people are standing outside. the door popping open was probably a surprise to the dog just as much as it was a surprise to you. I also agree that if she had wanted to do damage to that child she would have.

Please let us know what you decide.
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Postby Samthepit » September 18th, 2006, 12:32 am

As sick as it made me - I never thought I'd be as attatched as I was to an animal - she had to go. My DH had a hard enough time getting used to her and trusting her, that once she did that he just would never have trusted her around our kids - no matter what the 'real' reason was KWIM? So even though it BROKE my heart to see her trying to scrable out the door after me - like "hey mom, ur forgetting me!" :cry: I knew that as long as she could pass the evaluations she would be able to finally have a home where she could just be herself. Maybe if I had been more knowledgeable or experienced it would have been different - I tried though and I sure did love her. Thanks for your sympathy... Oh and I tried to get ahold of Cheryl but I couldn't reach her (she was probably busy all weekend and email was coming back as 'timing out'?) and when that opportunity opened up for Sam I just thought it might be best to jump on it. I did talk to Howard (can't remember his last name but he was the guy I was gonna take Sam to for training) and he said there is never an excuse for biting and that I was probably doing the right thing. *shrug* the real bummer to me is that I really wanted to get another pit (when we were ready for another dog) because I've really grown to love them and I know so much more now than I did when we got Sam, but DH said he didn't know if he really wanted to... we'll see, maybe it's just back to hounds for us - until later...
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Postby mnp13 » September 18th, 2006, 12:40 am

On September 18 2006, 00:32, Samthepit wrote:As sick as it made me - I never thought I'd be as attatched as I was to an animal - she had to go.


go... where?

Oh, and Cheryl's email server has been down since Friday and she was camping all weekend (I just found out 10 sesconds ago)
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Postby Samthepit » September 18th, 2006, 6:37 am

A lady contacted me about taking Sam to re-evaluate her and give her another chance - she works w/ the breed as well as runs a rescue. So she's w/ her for now and if she deems Sam stable (I guess that's the right word) she'll be re-homed... Thanks for the info about Cheryls email as well...

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Postby Kingsgurl » September 19th, 2006, 11:34 pm

On September 17 2006, cheekymunkee wrote:None of us were there, none of us saw what happened, we cannot evaluate a dog over the internet. Many times ( and once here jsut recently) a dog is called aggressive & that was not really the case. I will never tell someone whose dog bit but did not break the skin to euth their dog based off of a post on a message board. Munkee "bites" me, he is playing, there is no harm intended on his part. If he did this to someone who did not know him, they might very well call for his head. I have a scratch on my chin right now from one of his teeth. He put a whole in my hand once grabbing for a tug I was picking up off of the floor, he thought it was play time. I am NOT making light of what happened, I am just saying that sometimes an in person evaluation ( even if a dog has passed one twice) is called for, especially since an incident has and there is more information.


Just to clarify my position, in case any of this was directed at me. I did not tell the OP to euth the dog, that is a decision only they can make. They were there, they saw the dogs reaction and the incident. IMO, lunging out the front door and growling and biting a child she knows (throw in the had to be pulled off the poor kid part) and it seems this dog has passed the evaluation stage and it is now known what her bite threshold is, and it isn't very high.
Now, the OP has made the decision that she can not manage the dog in a manner that would prevent this issue from recurring (and that is wise, IMO)
My concern comes from re-homing the dog. Is the person who is going to 'work' with her and re-adopt her out going to be absolutely forthcoming with the new adopters, so they know the dog is a high risk around kids? Yes, I realize you mentioned they themselves did not have kids. Is the dog going to never come in contact with kids? Or to people at the front door?
There is a huge difference brtween playful biting, scratched during play and lunging out the front door and latching onto the neighbor kid.
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Postby Samthepit » September 20th, 2006, 9:03 am

I turned her over to a rescue that was willing to work w/ her and re-evaluate her. They found her to be weak nerved and aggressive. So odd because outside of that ONE incident Sam was NEVER (in my inexperienced opinion) weak nerved or aggressive - I could have been missing something though I suppose. They tried serveral venues and I just got word today that Sam is no more. Did I do the right thing? Maybe not - but I was trying to do the right thing. Either way - she's gone now... my poor baby. :cry:
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Postby Sue » September 20th, 2006, 11:49 am

So in less than 3 days they were able to determine that she was "weak nerved and aggressive"??? I'd be interested to know how they came to that conclusion. Seems like an awfully short time.
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Postby mnp13 » September 20th, 2006, 1:05 pm

Was that the same rescue that initially placed him with you?
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Postby babyreba » September 20th, 2006, 1:26 pm

On Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:49 am, Sue wrote:So in less than 3 days they were able to determine that she was "weak nerved and aggressive"??? I'd be interested to know how they came to that conclusion. Seems like an awfully short time.


Not if they put pressure on the dog and it responded, it's not. If they took the dog into a challenging situation, and the dog responded with aggression, they could have discovered that Sam was not adoptable in a shorter time than that.

RIP Sam.
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Postby Samthepit » September 20th, 2006, 2:30 pm

On September 20 2006, mnp13 wrote:Was that the same rescue that initially placed him with you?


My understanding is she's an associate of the rescue who adopted Sam out. She's not the lady I actually dealt w/ when I adopted Sam but I was referred to her when I had questions about Sam. I personally think that paticular rescue needs to be more cautious when adopting dogs from a shelter out. As would it be wise of ppl like myself to ask better questions and be more thoughtful of our decisions. While Sam was good here - I wonder if she ever should have been adopted out at all. No critizims by any means - just something that's run through my head.
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Postby mnp13 » September 20th, 2006, 2:52 pm

I am NOT faulting you for your decision... not at ALL.

However, it would seem that the rescue either placed a dog they had not screened at all, or they got the dog back and re-screened it with a "heavier" test to make it fail. That's not an uncommon thing with the SS shelters. Get a dog back and pester it until it fails...

I seriously doubt the dog suddenly got weak nerved and aggressive.
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Postby Samthepit » September 20th, 2006, 3:12 pm

I agree w/ you and I didn't think you were second guessing me at all. You just chalk it up as a learning experience, what else is there? I will definetly own a pit sometime in the future as I really learned so much about them and feel they are such a wonderful breed. However the next time I'll be far more careful WHERE I get the dog from and I'll remember to ask better questions and think before I act. I think Sam was simply over stressed by being 'dumped' by maybe the only person who was good to her (that's a guess) and then to be in a strange house w/ strange ppl asking her to behave a certain way was just too much for her. If I had to do over again I would do several things different (I think) - but I can't so until the next time... Thank you so much for answering what questions I did have and for being such an awesome source of info...
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Postby mnp13 » September 20th, 2006, 3:22 pm

Well, I hope you stick around! You don't have to have a Pit Bull to be here!

I'm very sorry for your loss, there was definately something else going on with your dog than was apparent. there are lots of EXCELLENT rescuees and lots that are still new at things. Don't give up!
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Postby babyreba » September 20th, 2006, 3:57 pm

although, wasn't there another incident with Sam, in which she kinda got really upset barking and growling at the kids when she was in the car?

i feel like i recall reading that sam had showed some behaviors that made you take her to cheryl in the first place . . . she sounded like she was showing signs of being nervy before this incident with the kid coming to your house.

i think you did the right thing sending the dog back to the rescue--if i adopted a dog that was allegedly "sound" from a rescue, i wouldn't tolerate barking and growling at people, nor would i tolerate an unprovoked reaction like the one sam gave when that kid came to your door.
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Postby Samthepit » September 20th, 2006, 4:48 pm

Yeah there was a situation once where I took Sam to the school to drop off the girls and she did freak out - but my question (at the time - looking back it takes on a totally different color KWIM) was is that really so unusual? My pom can really go nuts when he see's kids (from the car) but he's just really excited to see them. Now I would not classify Sam's response as 'excited' but this is where my inexperience shows - I wasn't 100% sure what was agression and what was just her being the way she sounded when she WAS excited KWIM? That probably doesn't make sense - but there were little things like that - not many but apparently enough.
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Postby Malli » September 20th, 2006, 7:51 pm

I really support your decision. I also think -from the "sounds" of it- that the right thing was done with the dog.
I am very sorry you happened apon this whole situation :(
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Postby mnp13 » September 20th, 2006, 8:13 pm

What happened in the car is commonly referred to as barrier frusteration. It can come from many sources, and is not necessarily an aggression thing. this is the same as what manifests at the door.
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Postby rockermom » September 22nd, 2006, 5:09 pm

I am so sorry this happened to you. Im sure You did the right thing for you and your family.
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