Pack of Lies

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Postby Marinepits » September 5th, 2006, 10:23 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/31/opini ... 0&emc=eta1

Op-Ed Contributor

Pack of Lies

By MARK DERR
Published: August 31, 2006
Miami Beach

WITH a compelling personal story as the illegal immigrant made good because of his uncanny ability to understand dogs, Cesar Millan has taken the world of canine behavior — or rather misbehavior — by storm. He has the top-rated program, “Dog Whisperer,â€
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Postby a-bull » September 5th, 2006, 10:29 am

yeah, I have his book, which is a good read and doesn't get into too much of his negative training methods, but in general he is not my cup of tea at all . . . and I hate the use of "flooding." Backfires waaaaay more often than it cures.
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Postby Purple » September 5th, 2006, 11:53 am

His training methods, his show, his book and the National Geographic channel have set back dog training 20 years. In his world, all behavior problems result from dominance.
Effective and long term success in behavior modification requires more than simply asserting dominance, which is based on a faulty intrepretation of wolf behavior.
He's able to spend 6 plus hours a day with his pack, what typical pet owner has 6 hours to spend with their dog(s)?
Argh....I'll stop now. I wouldn't even waste my money on his book.
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Postby cheekymunkee » September 5th, 2006, 12:01 pm

I have heard that he actually uses a very well disguised shock collar on some ofthe dogs. When he moves his hand towards the dogs neck, he is actually shocking the dog..............or did I see that on South Park? :| Hey, what do you expect,I'm sick.
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Postby a-bull » September 5th, 2006, 12:10 pm

Purple wrote:His training methods, his show, his book and the National Geographic channel have set back dog training 20 years. In his world, all behavior problems result from dominance.
Effective and long term success in behavior modification requires more than simply asserting dominance, which is based on a faulty intrepretation of wolf behavior.
He's able to spend 6 plus hours a day with his pack, what typical pet owner has 6 hours to spend with their dog(s)?
Argh....I'll stop now. I wouldn't even waste my money on his book.


I do agree with you. I did enjoy the book, but at the same time I could read between the lines. He mentions his use of "alpha rolls," which I don't approve of, however he does go on to say he doesn't recommend them.

He's kind of a kick back to the old, harsh dog training methods, coupled with today's dog owners need for a quick fix, and then he chucks the word "Whisperer" into his name to sound new, innovative and positive---which he's not.

Wolf behavior is a good study for general dog behavior, but the fact that dogs have been domesticated needs to be taken into account.

Also, if you've ever done any wolf research, as with domesticated dogs, nothing is etched in stone, and wolf behavior is a whole other study in and of itself.
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Postby Big_Ant » September 5th, 2006, 12:13 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:I have heard that he actually uses a very well disguised shock collar on some ofthe dogs. When he moves his hand towards the dogs neck, he is actually shocking the dog..............or did I see that on South Park? :| Hey, what do you expect,I'm sick.

Yes, I seen an episode of his show where he had put an RTC (not that other word, cheeks!) but failed to mention to the TV audience that it was on the dog.

He's very one dimensional. While his methods do work for some dogs and for some issues, it doesn't work for all, and he always asserts that everything is fine when he's done with the dog.

I love how he thought everything was fine and dandy with that white dog who's owner was in a wheelchair. He left the house all smug and saying that the dog was fine and that the woman could now finally walk the dog. He was back a week later because the dog had bitten a neighbor. Then the dog went for Ceasar and her young kids were trying to hold the dog, and it bit them while twisting to get ceasar. IMO, that dog should have been Euth'd. The mother was in no state to handle the dog and had no experience with handling the dog. The kids were kids, they didn't need to deal with that.

- Anthony
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Postby SisMorphine » September 5th, 2006, 12:15 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:I have heard that he actually uses a very well disguised shock collar on some ofthe dogs. When he moves his hand towards the dogs neck, he is actually shocking the dog..............or did I see that on South Park? :| Hey, what do you expect,I'm sick.

There is one episode regarding a GSD and high prey drive towards the family cat where he is using an e-collar (you can see the dog is wearing an extra collar, the electric part of it turned away from the camera) and one of his hands never leaves his pocket. I have heard a few people comment specifically on this epside. I don't believe that his finger poke/pinch and the "shhhht" sound always involve an e-collar. Basically he seems to be using it more as a distraction, which can be effective (some people will nudge their dogs with the foot or something else which will re-focus them off of what they are obsessing on). The problem is he is very solid in saying that he corrects dogs the way that other dogs correct each other. I would like to meet a dog who makes a "shhhhht" sound while correcting another dogs.

I think he half-has the idea but really needs to put his pe nis away and go learn some more.
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Postby SisMorphine » September 5th, 2006, 12:18 pm

Big_Ant wrote:The kids were kids, they didn't need to deal with that.

- Anthony

Dude, he had a 130+ lb reactive Rottie walking nicely with a 10 year old girl by the end of one epside. Talk about a disaster waiting to happen!!
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Postby Big_Ant » September 5th, 2006, 12:22 pm

SisMorphine wrote:I think he half-has the idea but really needs to put his pe nis away and go learn some more.

Completely off-topic, but that has me rolling, lol

I don't watch much TV, but I love that show Family Guy, and I was watching the episode last night where Stewie meets himself from the future and he's trying to get himself laid. He gets into his own adult face and says "Get your ass in there and ... {{{looking at book about sex}}}...put your pe-nis in her va-gin-uh"

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Postby Big_Ant » September 5th, 2006, 12:24 pm

SisMorphine wrote:
Big_Ant wrote:The kids were kids, they didn't need to deal with that.

- Anthony

Dude, he had a 130+ lb reactive Rottie walking nicely with a 10 year old girl by the end of one epside. Talk about a disaster waiting to happen!!

I seen that one. That and other idiots who think large dogs can be walked by kids or left outside with the kids is why I carry my knife at all times (not that I didn't before)!

- Anthony
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Postby Purple » September 5th, 2006, 12:30 pm

Wolf behavior is a good study for general dog behavior, but the fact that dogs have been domesticated needs to be taken into account.

Also, if you've ever done any wolf research, as with domesticated dogs, nothing is etched in stone, and wolf behavior is a whole other study in and of itself.


Yep! High status wolves don't bark out a come command to subordinates and they don't punish young pups for disobedience if they don't perform a perfect recal when asked. Status isn't revelant in most social interactions.
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Postby a-bull » September 5th, 2006, 12:36 pm

Purple wrote:
Wolf behavior is a good study for general dog behavior, but the fact that dogs have been domesticated needs to be taken into account.

Also, if you've ever done any wolf research, as with domesticated dogs, nothing is etched in stone, and wolf behavior is a whole other study in and of itself.


Yep! High status wolves don't bark out a come command to subordinates and they don't punish young pups for disobedience if they don't perform a perfect recal when asked. Status isn't revelant in most social interactions.


. . . except people, lol . . .
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 5th, 2006, 6:14 pm

I have never seen or read any of his stuff, but I'm not sure if I want to. What is the "Illusion" collar?
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Postby Magnolia618 » September 5th, 2006, 6:44 pm

With all of the lies on TV, I'm not to worried about "The Dog Whisperer".

He isnt anything special, and he has some bad ideas, but what harm is he really doing? At least people who know NOTHING about dog training will at least attempt to do something with their dog before dumping it.

Not to mention all of the positive pit bull press

:|
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Postby Romanwild » September 5th, 2006, 7:04 pm

After this weekend I am all about Gary Wilkes.

I was before but after meeting him in person I am very into his approach.

I've already made 2 bonkers.

oops....ot sorry.
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Postby Big_Ant » September 5th, 2006, 7:11 pm

Romanwild wrote:After this weekend I am all about Gary Wilkes.

I was before but after meeting him in person I am very into his approach.

I've already made 2 bonkers.

oops....ot sorry.

Don't pop into a topic and then not elaborate!

Who is this Gary guy, and what's he all about?

You dang East Coasters get all of the good people and events!!!

We need a Bull-ympics here on the West Coast!

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Postby Romanwild » September 5th, 2006, 7:22 pm

I'll start a seperate thread about.

He's the dude that brought marker training to dogs basically. http://www.clickandtreat.com/

He can talk about using a clicker and a RTC in the same sentence.

He hates pure positive. He and Karen Pryor use to work together but then went their seperate ways.

I saw him get a Boston to moonwalk in about 15 minutes using a clicker and string cheese. I was facinated.

About 90 percent of what I used to train Dreyfus was from his site.

He's really funny too.
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Postby Purple » September 5th, 2006, 7:23 pm

And WTH is a bonker....and why were you hit in the balls by one?
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Postby iluvk9 » September 5th, 2006, 7:27 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:I have never seen or read any of his stuff, but I'm not sure if I want to. What is the "Illusion" collar?


Illusion is his wife's name. This website shows the collar:

http://cesarmillan.securesites.net/icollar.php
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 5th, 2006, 7:32 pm

It looks like a neck brace.
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