ok here goes... The questions start now (kinda long - sorry)

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby Samthepit » August 26th, 2006, 11:12 pm

I think I mentioned in my intro post that we got Sam from a rescue. I was originally looking to adopt a boxer/hound mix but that dog was already taken so they sent me a pic of Sam saying she was a sheppard mix. How can u say no to this face right? Especially when she's gonna be put down the next day due to overcrowding! Image

So I show my DH and say "how about this dog" and he says OK (first mistake) so they make arrangments to get Sam to us since they weren't that close. When I talked to the rescue people they knew we had 3 little girls and another dog, but I failed to ask many questions at all and certainly NONE of the right ones. (NOT the brightest bulb in the box I'm not) We pick Sam up and it's obvious she's got pit in her. As time goes on I become fairly certain that she's a straight up APBT and not much of a mix (just a guess though) based on pics and the vets comments when I took Sam in. We've had some aggression issues but only in relation to other dogs - which upon reading I've discovered is 'normal' and not necessarily a sign that she's a threat to humans. Which leads me around to the begining round of questions.. (sorry it took me so long only trying to give some history in case it's helpful)

I put Sam in OB classes - made another mistake there because these people were not well versed in bully breeds. I think they are great w/ the likes of retrievers and goldens but not so sure their tactics are all that effective. On our last day of class Sam got aggitated w/ another dog that was barking and begain to get aggressive w/ the other dog and when I attempted to put her into the 'down' position she refused to go so the trainer takes over and attempts to not only force her into the down position but into the 'submissive' position (on her back) which she rarely does at any time much less a stressful time and she FREAKED. Pissed all over the place and ended up biting the guy. I of course became a basket case because I'm upset that she bit him (not AT her, just upset if that makes sense) and upset cause I'm not sure that is what should have happened but I know nothing about this stuff man - that's why I'm paying him right?! :oops: Soo, my questions are as follows:

1. How do I properly handle Sam in a situation where she becomes aggressive w/ another dog?

2. How do I find a good trainer, as in what do I look for?


I belong to another board which I love - but there don't 'seem' to be many pit owners (could be wrong though still learning) and so I was directed here w/ the thought that maybe you wonderful people could give me some further pointers. I apologize for taking up so much 'space' - if u've hung w/ me this long I really appreciate it - you're a doll!

Wanted to edit it to add the OP's on the other board have been very helpful just looking for any additional advice you might have. Wanna give credit where credit is due...
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby msvette2u » August 26th, 2006, 11:42 pm

Um, all I could say is find a different trainer, the one you're working with is an IDIOT. They brought the bite ON themselves. If my dog didn't bite them, I would have, myself!
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby cheekymunkee » August 27th, 2006, 1:13 am

Where do you live? Someone on the board may be close to you & give you some recomendations. Until then, do NOT go back to this moron. He got what he deserved IMO. Any one who attempts to roll a stressed dog is a complete idiot.

I am no trainer but what has worked for us is to use distraction when on leash. Teach the dog to focus on you while crossing paths with another leashed dog. Treats help quite a bit to help teach the dog to turn to you when another dog is in site. My male dog is very dog aggressive and he is able to walk on leash while another dog is around using this method, as long as the dog does not approach him, then he forgets I exist. I am terrible at explaining things but I am sure someone will be along to give you better advice soon.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

Debby
User avatar
cheekymunkee
I Have Your Grass
 
Posts: 28540
Location: Dallas

Postby jlewin » August 27th, 2006, 7:54 am

as far as finding a trainer goes, ditto, tell us where you are. if you are lucky someone may know someone. what to look for... if their eyes go big and they force a smile when they see the "scary pit bull" they are the wrong trainer. you want someone who is comfortable and confident and not stupid enough to force immediate submission on a dog defending itself. references references references if you are at all concerned with who you are dealing with.
jlewin
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 81
Location: Simsbury, CT

Postby Samthepit » August 27th, 2006, 8:07 am

I'm in michigan near the pontiac/detroit area. I did get the name of a lady who sounds awesome however she's in St. John which is about an hour from me and I couldnt' get to her and everyone else I called never called back until well after I had joined this last class due to a lack of choices. It's so frustrating, but I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. Thank you!
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby a-bull » August 27th, 2006, 10:08 am

Same here . . . new trainer.

I, too, have had negative experiences with non-bully savvy trainers. Maybe some people on here can help you find one in your area who knows how to work with bully breeds, and honestly, dogs in general--- because that trainer actually sounds quite reactive and risky.

Start to teach her the "leave it" command for walking near other dogs. You really want to teach a dog aggressive dog to focus on you when around other dogs, not the other dogs.

I'm not saying that will cure the d.a., but it will hopefully help keep her under control.

I also discovered that when I first adopted my dogs, it was better to train them in private classes or very small, controlled training classes, until they had basic commands solid. This is particularly true, I think, with rescue dogs who have any baggage or issues.

Only allow her to be around other dogs in a predictable environment until she learns to ignore the other dogs. You don't want any more negative experiences for her or yourself.

Good luck. :)
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 27th, 2006, 11:58 am

Along with everybody else here, I think that teaching Sam the "leave it" command as well as a "watch me" command could make a big difference. Also, perhaps you should consider some private sessions before throwing her in with other pups again? That would give you some time to get the basics down before trying to do it with distractions.

Good luck, and please keep us updated!
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby Samthepit » August 27th, 2006, 2:51 pm

Well Sam already know's leave it and watch me (needs a little work though). She's a really smart dog but when she wants what she wants - it's hard to break her attention. I'll start looking into trainers that work specifically w/ bully breeds. Now I just feel like an @## for not doing a better job the first time around.... Thanks guys...
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby a-bull » August 27th, 2006, 3:29 pm

Samthepit wrote:Well Sam already know's leave it and watch me (needs a little work though). She's a really smart dog but when she wants what she wants - it's hard to break her attention. I'll start looking into trainers that work specifically w/ bully breeds. Now I just feel like an @## for not doing a better job the first time around.... Thanks guys...


Don't be so hard on yourself. What you did the first time around may have been perfectly fine . . . just not for Sam. :D

Sam can't be too bad if the old trainer was able to roll her over. Her "bite" was probably only a reprimand of the trainer for being overly harsh, dominant and aggressive. Not that any "bite" is o.k., but in that scenario, I'm not the least bit shocked by the reaction. Did she break the skin?
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Samthepit » August 27th, 2006, 4:40 pm

There was blood but it wasn't like the damage I KNOW she could have done had she wanted to. It was more like maybe a scratch type bite? If that makes sense. I didn't examine his hand though - I feel bad I know these people are nice people (even if they are a bit clueless about some dogs maybe?) but I just felt so overhwelmed. I too agree that it didnt' make me think Sam was human aggressive - just a young dog (she's only about 7-9 months old guessing) who was afriad. I'm afraid that I may have allowed her to be in a situation where she is now going to become human agressive. Oh so many variables - thank you for your encouragment - it does make a difference.
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby pitgrrl » August 27th, 2006, 5:56 pm

Samthepit wrote:Well Sam already know's leave it and watch me (needs a little work though). She's a really smart dog but when she wants what she wants - it's hard to break her attention.


I have one dog who is pretty dog aggressive, so it was really important to go slow with the "watch me" command when around other dogs.

In my experience, if she really knows the command, but can't do it when around other dogs, you've gone too fast with adding distractions. Start with dogs really far away, once she's able to handle that with no freaking out, make the situation a bit more distracting. The point is to get her to look to you before she reacts.[/i]
pitgrrl
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 23
Location: montreal

Postby a-bull » August 27th, 2006, 7:12 pm

Samthepit wrote:There was blood but it wasn't like the damage I KNOW she could have done had she wanted to. It was more like maybe a scratch type bite? If that makes sense. I didn't examine his hand though - I feel bad I know these people are nice people (even if they are a bit clueless about some dogs maybe?) but I just felt so overhwelmed. I too agree that it didnt' make me think Sam was human aggressive - just a young dog (she's only about 7-9 months old guessing) who was afriad. I'm afraid that I may have allowed her to be in a situation where she is now going to become human agressive. Oh so many variables - thank you for your encouragment - it does make a difference.


I don't think one incident like that will make a dog that does not have a prediposition to h.a. become h.a.

However, bad experiences during fear stages, which Sam could be in, could cause her to be more cautious or skittish around people---thus, you want to avoid lots of negative experiences during this first year.

Try to make Sam's experiences from here on out as positive/predictable as possible, and start again with a positive based trainer, especially during this young age and in light of this negative experience. :)
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby mnp13 » August 28th, 2006, 12:30 pm

Samthepit wrote:I'm in michigan near the pontiac/detroit area. I did get the name of a lady who sounds awesome however she's in St. John which is about an hour from me and I couldnt' get to her and everyone else I called never called back until well after I had joined this last class due to a lack of choices. It's so frustrating, but I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. Thank you!


Is that lady Cheryl Carlson by any chance? She is 10,000% worth an hour drive for training.

That other trainer is an idiot, and just proves how dangerous "alpha rolls" are. I don't care what breed of dog it is, when you try to dominate a dog that doesn't want to be dominated you're going to get bit.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby luvmyangels » August 28th, 2006, 12:49 pm

What a scary situation you were in. As everyone else has said the trainer is a moron. Best of luck trying to find a new trainer.
luvmyangels
I live here
 
Posts: 3449
Location: NY

Postby a-bull » August 28th, 2006, 1:27 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Samthepit wrote:I'm in michigan near the pontiac/detroit area. I did get the name of a lady who sounds awesome however she's in St. John which is about an hour from me and I couldnt' get to her and everyone else I called never called back until well after I had joined this last class due to a lack of choices. It's so frustrating, but I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. Thank you!


Is that lady Cheryl Carlson by any chance? She is 10,000% worth an hour drive for training.

That other trainer is an idiot, and just proves how dangerous "alpha rolls" are. I don't care what breed of dog it is, when you try to dominate a dog that doesn't want to be dominated you're going to get bit.


Agreed . . . particularly regarding "I don't care what breed . . . "

As I always say about alpha rolls, it's a good way to get your face bitten. That trainer was lucky it was just an arm.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Samthepit » August 28th, 2006, 3:35 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Samthepit wrote:I'm in michigan near the pontiac/detroit area. I did get the name of a lady who sounds awesome however she's in St. John which is about an hour from me and I couldnt' get to her and everyone else I called never called back until well after I had joined this last class due to a lack of choices. It's so frustrating, but I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and advice. Thank you!


Is that lady Cheryl Carlson by any chance? She is 10,000% worth an hour drive for training.

That other trainer is an idiot, and just proves how dangerous "alpha rolls" are. I don't care what breed of dog it is, when you try to dominate a dog that doesn't want to be dominated you're going to get bit.


It is Chery Carlson and I'm glad to hear another shining post about her. I guess I'll give her another call/look at her website. After the drive, expense becomes an issue - yeah I know u get what u pay for (as I've learned) but ya gotta work w/ whatcha got KWIM? tyvm.....
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby mnp13 » August 28th, 2006, 3:38 pm

tyvm???

I have only met Cheryl in person once, at the Dog Sports Open, but she was quite remarkable there. She is also Chris Fraize's mentor, and though he is very talented in his own right, according to him "she has forgotten more than he will ever learn."

I am looking forward to going out there for training in the future. It's more than worth the 6 hour drive!
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Samthepit » August 28th, 2006, 4:04 pm

Wow, 6 hour drive? A one time event, once a week or what man? TYVM = Thank You Very Much. Thanks for the feedback if you can come from 6 hours away I can swing 1-1/2 hours I guess. Let me know when u r going to go - maybe we'll see each other there. :greenWave:
Sarah Broadwater
"who's behavior do you answer for?"
Samthepit
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 35
Location: michigan

Postby mnp13 » August 28th, 2006, 4:36 pm

We have driven 6 hours or more for a weekend event (DSO and Frostbite) twice and once for a seminar.

I have driven an hour and 15 minutes eash way for training a few times as well. We are trying to do that every other week, but havn't managed to do that yet.

If you are getting the training that you and your dog need, it's worth it. Some trainers will give you a price break if you set up a bunch of sessions at a time, and some will give you a little off to account for the money you spend driving.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby SisMorphine » August 28th, 2006, 5:39 pm

An hour isn't so bad at all! I drive an hour and 15 minutes once or twice a week to go train. If the glowing words I've heard are correct, Cheryl is a good person to go see! And a good trainer is well worth the ride.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9231

Next

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron