a lil snarl action

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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:06 pm

Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:lol . . . "only if he comes out peacefully"---sounds like you're sending in the SWAT team for him. :D


Two words: tear gas! Betcha he comes out then. :wink:


. . . or sniper . . .
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 8:08 pm

a-bull wrote:
Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:lol . . . "only if he comes out peacefully"---sounds like you're sending in the SWAT team for him. :D


Two words: tear gas! Betcha he comes out then. :wink:


. . . or sniper . . .


Nah, less-than-lethals are better. Bean bags will make him move. Oooo! So will flash-bangs! Those are fun -- like indoor fireworks!
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:14 pm

bean bags?? :|

Quit getting all weaponish on me. I'm a peace-maker. :D
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 8:15 pm

a-bull wrote:bean bags?? :|

Quit getting all weaponish on me. I'm a peace-maker. :D


Sissy.
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:19 pm

:groupHug:

Peace, man . . . :afro:
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 8:23 pm

Screw that! You are NO FUN. I'm bringing weapons to your house and I'm going to teach you how to have some crazy fun!
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:27 pm

Marinepits wrote:Screw that! You are NO FUN. I'm bringing weapons to your house and I'm going to teach you how to have some crazy fun!


oh man, I hate weapons . . . You've got to leave them in the driveway.
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Postby rockermom » August 9th, 2006, 8:29 pm

Yeah Peace, And I would lure him using a treat but I do say come out of there. Exactly what I did was to say come although made sure he knew I had treats. I never knew if it was dominance or fear or a little of both. He would react the second the hand would reach to grab his collar. But I was given advice by a trainer to stop grabbing him by the collar to pull him off the couch or out from under the bed or off the bed etc. He was on NILIF and constantly wanted to be on the couch or under the bed.
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 8:29 pm

Since we've pretty much hijacked this entire thread.....

Have you seen the Capital One commercials with the barbarians looking for a new job and now they're camp counselors?
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:36 pm

rockermom wrote:Yeah Peace, And I would lure him using a treat but I do say come out of there. Exactly what I did was to say come although made sure he knew I had treats. I never knew if it was dominance or fear or a little of both. He would react the second the hand would reach to grab his collar. But I was given advice by a trainer to stop grabbing him by the collar to pull him off the couch or out from under the bed or off the bed etc. He was on NILIF and constantly wanted to be on the couch or under the bed.


Yeah, my female was always naughty if confronted. I don't really worry too much anymore about the basis for the behavior in rescue dogs, I just tend to it.

I guess the bottom line is unless there was some massive abuse issue previously, where the behavior stems from doesn't really matter in the end, because the approaches tend to be similar with most dogs . . . although some are more tolerant and less naughty than mine. :twisted:
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 8:36 pm

Marinepits wrote:Since we've pretty much hijacked this entire thread.....

Have you seen the Capital One commercials with the barbarians looking for a new job and now they're camp counselors?


No . . .
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 9:22 pm

a-bull wrote:
Marinepits wrote:Since we've pretty much hijacked this entire thread.....

Have you seen the Capital One commercials with the barbarians looking for a new job and now they're camp counselors?


No . . .


Dude, you gotta get out more, LOL.
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 9:26 pm

No, you need to stay in less, lol!!

I hardly ever have the t.v. on. Peace, man, remember?!
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Postby mnp13 » August 9th, 2006, 9:54 pm

a-bull wrote:I think I'd give him a command, too . . . "come" along with the enticement.


except... when you say come and the dog doesn't do as it is told and then eventually does you just reinforced that the dog can obey a command whenever it wants to and it will still get a treat.

if you get the dog out and then tell it to sit and then give it the treat, you rewarded the sit, not coming out from under the bed.
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 9:57 pm

How about teaching the dog the "low crawl" to come out from under the bed? Keep the treat on the ground and just entice the dog directly from under the bed. Do you think that would work? The natural action for moving from under the bed would be a low crawl, so the reward could be given for both actions together.....
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 10:18 pm

mnp13 wrote:
a-bull wrote:I think I'd give him a command, too . . . "come" along with the enticement.


except... when you say come and the dog doesn't do as it is told and then eventually does you just reinforced that the dog can obey a command whenever it wants to and it will still get a treat.

if you get the dog out and then tell it to sit and then give it the treat, you rewarded the sit, not coming out from under the bed.


I'm just addressing the issue of just using a lure, with no commands.

I'm assuming the dog knows the basic command "come." If they don't, no, that won't work. The command "come" should be a basic, rock solid command.

The sit was in response to just dangling a lure without any command---thus, succesfully luring the dog out for a treat, but with no rhyme of reason---point being to make the dog do something, anything, before giving it a treat.
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 10:19 pm

Marinepits wrote:How about teaching the dog the "low crawl" to come out from under the bed? Keep the treat on the ground and just entice the dog directly from under the bed. Do you think that would work? The natural action for moving from under the bed would be a low crawl, so the reward could be given for both actions together.....


I'm actually a tad mystified why people don't want their dogs under their beds. :|
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Postby mnp13 » August 9th, 2006, 10:23 pm

a-bull wrote:The sit was in response to just dangling a lure without any command---thus, succesfully luring the dog out for a treat, but with no rhyme of reason---point being to make the dog do something, anything, before giving it a treat.


But MY point is that if you treat the sit you are not marking the desired behavior - coming out from under the bed. the dog would be doing something (not yet named with a command) to get the treat.
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Postby a-bull » August 9th, 2006, 10:37 pm

mnp13 wrote:
a-bull wrote:The sit was in response to just dangling a lure without any command---thus, succesfully luring the dog out for a treat, but with no rhyme of reason---point being to make the dog do something, anything, before giving it a treat.


But MY point is that if you treat the sit you are not marking the desired behavior - coming out from under the bed. the dog would be doing something (not yet named with a command) to get the treat.


Again, I was suggesting a sit because one of the posters asked about using a lure to get the dog out, without a command. Not a good idea to lure the dog out with a treat, say nothing, then give it a treat---assuming the dog does not have a rock solid "come."

The best choice is to give the dog the command "come" and when he does, give the treat. If you can't get your dog out from under a bed, and it's important to you, my really basic advice would be to re-train the "come" command 'til it's foolproof. . . but I was trying to just address one particular posters question about a lure without a command without getting into my philosophy on life. :D
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Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2006, 10:39 pm

Wouldn't this solve the problem?

How about teaching the dog the "low crawl" to come out from under the bed? Keep the treat on the ground and just entice the dog directly from under the bed. Do you think that would work? The natural action for moving from under the bed would be a low crawl, so the reward could be given for both actions together.....


Heehee, I quoted myself!
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