Obedience FAILURE! (She bit the Trainer!!)

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Postby Maryellen » August 8th, 2006, 2:49 pm

also, if a dog has been in that many different homes and the prospective adopter got 2 different stories i shouldnt have to tell someone to not get a dog.. that should be a huge red flag from the start... we went over what you told me about her and what i read about her here.. i told you i had my doubts about her in the beginning, but i also told you it wasnt my decision to make.
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Postby anissa » August 8th, 2006, 2:49 pm

Seriously, why are you getting so anal over one word or phrase? The trainer approached Jaida without warning. Neither of us were expecting it. Perhaps SNEAKING may not have been the proper word to use, but you all get the idea. Whether she snuck up, skipped up, ran up or crawled up.. regardless, she approached without either of seeing her coming and triggered a reaction. Like I said.. had I expected her approach, Id have taken better control.

During the walk around the room, Jaida was on a very short and tight lead. She had to be, to keep her from lunging forward. There was a required 5 foot distance between each owner and dog, unfortunately the other dogs were not on a short leash and fell back and forward enough that Jaida could get close enough to nip at them. Now.. Im not passing blame on this too, but IF I could have gotten Jaida any closer/tighter to me, Id have been carrying her in my arms around the room.

I do not see how my husbands deployment could/would make working with Jaida any harder than if he were here. Sure.. Id have his support and someone to take the dogs on a nightly run, but other than that, I do everything else for and with the dogs on my own. Taking Jaida in knowing she had hyperactivity and vocal problems were not reason enough for us to NOT take her. These are 'relatively' simple problems we can work on. This 'biting' problem was one we couldnt forsee, or were told about before getting her.
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Postby msvette2u » August 8th, 2006, 3:05 pm

Not to belabor the point but you DID know she'd had 9 foster homes in a year - that is, nobody kept her longer than just over a month, and that would have been enough for anyone to definately take a better look at it.
You might be upset at me for suggesting this but when I first read you got another dog so soon after rehoming the little puppy, my first thought was "out of the frying pan, into the fire". You knew she had almost been PTS 2x, did you not ask yourself, why this was so?
Now all that aside, you have to do what's right for this dog - getting serious help from someone who KNOWS pit bulls is a step in the right direction. We'd all love to see that happen.
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 3:17 pm

anissa wrote:Seriously, why are you getting so anal over one word or phrase? The trainer approached Jaida without warning. Neither of us were expecting it. Perhaps SNEAKING may not have been the proper word to use, but you all get the idea. Whether she snuck up, skipped up, ran up or crawled up.. regardless, she approached without either of seeing her coming and triggered a reaction. Like I said.. had I expected her approach, Id have taken better control.


NO. That is NOT what you said earlier. I will quote you yet again
The trainer realized that we were having some problems and came over to speak to us, as soon as she went to acknowledge Jaida

You quite clearly said that the trainer "came over to speak to us". This would lead me to believe that you saw her approaching.

You and you alone are responsible for your dog's behavior.

Riggs is a nipper, and has been since day one. I know he is like this and though I am getting used to it, I keep careful watch on him so that he does not jump up and nip other people. MY RESPONSIBILITY.

During the walk around the room, Jaida was on a very short and tight lead. She had to be, to keep her from lunging forward. There was a required 5 foot distance between each owner and dog, unfortunately the other dogs were not on a short leash and fell back and forward enough that Jaida could get close enough to nip at them. Now.. Im not passing blame on this too, but IF I could have gotten Jaida any closer/tighter to me, Id have been carrying her in my arms around the room.


then it is your responsibility to stop moving so that the other dog could get ahead farther. It is beginning to seem that you want to pass the blame for 90% of this entire incident on to other people. The lagging dog was not obeying the "heel" command, your dog bit that dog. How is that anyone else's fault? Had your dog not been aggressive there wouldn't have been an issue. Yes, of course, that dog should have been farther ahead, but you could have been farther back. As the owner of the aggressor you are at fault.

I do not see how my husbands deployment could/would make working with Jaida any harder than if he were here. Sure.. Id have his support and someone to take the dogs on a nightly run, but other than that, I do everything else for and with the dogs on my own. Taking Jaida in knowing she had hyperactivity and vocal problems were not reason enough for us to NOT take her. These are 'relatively' simple problems we can work on. This 'biting' problem was one we couldnt forsee, or were told about before getting her.


You don't have a driver's license and you are having major surgery in the near future. Who will be taking the dogs on nightly runs during your recovery? If they are not getting the same levels of attention and exercise they will begin to act out. The adjustment in having him gone would have created problems by itself, everything else will compound the problem.

How will you continue training the dogs? You can only handle one dog at a time during a class, you can't drive to get to the classes and you will be layed up for a signifigant period of time after the surgery.

I would also hardly continue to refer to this as human aggression or "biting". Your dog was not under your control and jumped on someone. Your description of the events has ranged from the trainer calmly approaching you and Jaida jumping up and nipping her to the trainer sneaking up on you and Jaida lunging and growling.

No one here can help or even offer advice when the story changes at every turn. There have been a lot of people offering advice and ideas, but frankly, you don't seem to want to hear them.

I am going to offer this FINAL piece of advice. Contact Charles and ask him who he knows in the area who is qualified to evaluate this dog. That trainer will be able to assess the problem and recommend a training solution. No one on a message board can replace that in person evaluation.
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Postby anissa » August 8th, 2006, 3:24 pm

:slap:

OF COURSE I asked why she was almost put to sleep 2x. Of course I asked why she had been rehomed so many times. And as mentioned in her rescue thread.. she unfortunately fell victim to rescue politics. Ive recieved the whole story since (I dont feel the need to have to relay it here) and her being placed so many times with so many different homes had NOTHING to do with her or her behavior problems. I know its so easy for you to assume that these problems were the reason, but dont assume that I am too stunned to wonder and question why.
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Postby Marinepits » August 8th, 2006, 3:43 pm

mnp13 wrote:I am going to offer this FINAL piece of advice. Contact Charles and ask him who he knows in the area who is qualified to evaluate this dog. That trainer will be able to assess the problem and recommend a training solution. No one on a message board can replace that in person evaluation.


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Postby Maryellen » August 8th, 2006, 3:44 pm

well then, i am sorry, then the rescue that adopted her to you should have kept her in a foster home for at least a month before adopting her out.. if they didnt know her background they should have followed proper protocol and put her in one of their own foster homes to make sure her temperment was ok..
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Postby anissa » August 8th, 2006, 3:46 pm

No matter how I put things, there is always going to be someone coming at me attacking my wording.

Michelle, how would me saying that the trainer came over to speak to us, lead you to believe that we SAW her coming? Does that mean if someone is approaching you from behind to 'speak to you' that you KNOW they are coming?

I am responsible as Jaida's owner, 100% and do not want to come across as passing the blame on ANYONE. I didnt intend to put blame on the trainer when I mentioned that had she not approached us I would have walked out of there pretty proud of Jaida for her first day at obedience. Its since been twisted and contrived into me absolutely passing blame on her.

And I did take the responsibility to move back/slow down when the other dog was close enough for Jaida to take a nip at it. THAT is when the dog behind us was up too close and she went for its leg. And before these incidents turn into another big ordeal.. I need to say that Jaida was NOT lunging to attack, but lunges (which looks like she's ready to attack) everytime she plays or wants to play.



As far as my husband deploying, who the hell are you to assume I dont have the support I need, especially when I go into surgery? If its really neccesary for me to reassure you, I have a teenage daughter that loves these dogs and will be giving them plenty of the attention and much of the excercise they need. I have neighbors and friends who also adore my dogs, and who have already put together a support group for all of us deployed soldiers spouses, this includes helping out with children AND animals. I will have both my adult brother and sister coming to help out when I am recovering (which requires very little bedrest time). I do not have a license, but also have the support I need to get around. If I need to go somewhere myself, or head to the vet with the dogs, I have people. However, requesting that they drive me and my dogs 2-3-4 hours away to meet with a trainer a couple of times a month is unreasonable.
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 4:17 pm

anissa wrote:As far as my husband deploying, who the hell are you to assume I dont have the support I need, especially when I go into surgery?


As I recall, you re-homed the puppy because your husband would be deploying soon, there was a chance of dog aggression somewhere down the road that you didn't want to deal with, you have major surgery coming up soon and you didn't think you could handle the kids, house, surgery, dog and puppy without his support. (not verbatim, I don't really feel like looking up the posts)

All of the above still applies, except you have a young adult female instead of a male puppy. And that female has plenty of baggage that came with her.

You have not been able to contact Charles about trainers in your area because you are too busy with getting ready for your husband's deployment. You can't go to a different trainer because you don't have a drivers license.

We are not making this all up, the comments here are based on the things you yourself have posted. We can only know what you tell us, and what you have told us seems to conflict.
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Postby anissa » August 8th, 2006, 4:46 pm

I did not rehome the puppy because my husband is deploying. I consider that just as bad as giving up a dog because of a new job, or a new pregnancy etc. I would NEVER do it for those reasons alone. Granted, my husbands deployment will make it harder.. but that wasnt the reason we gave him up. It was also in evalutating how we could handle 2 dogs (when we had the pup) that I realized it was still managable.


I havent said that I cannot go to another trainer, I simply cant make it to a trainer who is hours away. Charles offered local trainer information, and I do plan on calling and meeting with him. I realize that these are issues I need to deal with right away, but if I cant fit enough time in to meet with him this week, I cant. That doesnt mean Im NOT going to!

Personally, I dont think what I am saying is conflicting with other things Ive said, its just been worded in ways that are easily twisted and manipulated. Once someone disagree's with you, theres usually no way of changing their mind. I could explain myself until my fingers bled, and no matter what I say or how I say it.. someone wont understand exactly what I am trying to say, understand it but still want to twist it, read between the lines or put words in my mouth. Yes.. everything that Ive said are things Ive posted, but realistically, have they really been so opposite and conflicting, despite a few word changes or lack of words to express whats REALLY happening?

Nevermind. I need to deal with some issues Im having with Jaida, that is the reason Im here, to seek the help I need.. if you want to scrutinize every single word, fine.. but I am finished explaining myself. If you have a question.. ASK, stop assuming.
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Postby msvette2u » August 8th, 2006, 5:33 pm

Nevermind. I need to deal with some issues Im having with Jaida, that is the reason Im here, to seek the help I need.. if you want to scrutinize every single word, fine.. but I am finished explaining myself. If you have a question.. ASK, stop assuming.


You came and asked for help, and we told you - from your descriptions, we cannot accurately determine what is going on - so we advised you to get ahold of a trainer, and you told us that can't happen at the time being - so we are concerned. I believe that until you tell us you've had Charles come over and/or recommend a trainer for the dog, we will all continue to be concerned. With all the problems pit bulls are facing, having one that is possibly a bite risk or unstable is a huge problem and a huge liability.
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Postby Maryellen » August 8th, 2006, 6:15 pm

i do not suggest you have your daughter walk jaida for exercise, with her redirecting behaviors and dog aggression no one but you and your husband should walk her.
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Postby rockermom » August 8th, 2006, 6:26 pm

Maryellen wrote:i do not suggest you have your daughter walk jaida for exercise, with her redirecting behaviors and dog aggression no one but you and your husband should walk her.


Yes good advice I would try not to have your daughter walk her have someone else do it till things calm down.
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Postby Maryellen » August 8th, 2006, 8:14 pm

no one but anissa or her husband should walk jaida, if the wrong person walks her and something happens .....
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Postby rockermom » August 8th, 2006, 8:25 pm

Yes but I was thinking if she physically will not be able to after surgery and her Husband is off, than better an adult than a child?
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Postby Maryellen » August 8th, 2006, 8:33 pm

in another circumstance yes, if jaida wasnt so reactive.. but with her being as reactive as she is, someone else who has no experience with reactive pitbulls can cause more harm then good.. if something happens while out on a walk then what?? i wont let anyone walk jesse, or rufus. if they dont have pit bull or gsd experience they dont get to hold the leash. period.. if i cant walk them, i at least have a fenced in yard for them.. and mine are not as hyper as jaida. jesse is super DA, and rufus is somewhat DA, i wont take the chance loosing my dogs by having someone else walk them that has no dog experience with DA dogs or dominant dogs.
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Postby Karen » August 8th, 2006, 8:44 pm

You all are wasting your time. Hey Anissa why not give her to the creepy guy you're paranoid about? Maybe she'll eat him instead.

Seriously she isn't listening so why bother? Every excuse under the sun for this n that means SHE knows better and no one else does squat.
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Postby anissa » August 9th, 2006, 12:29 am

Oh blow it out your asss Karen.
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Postby Karen » August 9th, 2006, 8:52 am

anissa wrote:Oh blow it out your asss Karen.


Like you've been doing for 5 pages worth of rediculous? You really don't want help you just want to whine and wring your hands boo hooey
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 9th, 2006, 9:24 am

:to:

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