So, I'm at a loss with Mac.

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 9:24 pm

We've tried every "gadget" out there to train Mac to not pull on his leash. We've also followed lots of advice from this forum on how to train him on just a flat collar with no pulling. No matter what we've done, the bugger still PULLS.

In the process of walking the dogs this afternoon, I let him out to do his business and for some blonde reason I forgot to put his leash on him. Well, Big Mac decided to fall right into step at my left heel like he belonged there. I let him follow me a bit throughout the yard and he was a superstar with the heeling. Then I clipped the leash onto his collar. He immediately went to the end of the leash and started pulling me. What gives? :|

(Mac is approximately 3 years old, 100 pounds, Mastiff/AmStaff mix and smart as a whip.)
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby katiek0417 » July 25th, 2006, 9:27 pm

Have you tried a lighter leash...

What methods have you used to train him not to pull?

Did you praise him as he was heeling beside you?

What people forget in training a dog to walk on the leash, is that it's great to give the corrections, but you actually have to reward also for doing it right....
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 9:36 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Have you tried a lighter leash...

What methods have you used to train him not to pull?

Did you praise him as he was heeling beside you?

What people forget in training a dog to walk on the leash, is that it's great to give the corrections, but you actually have to reward also for doing it right....


His leash is very light -- one ply nylon, 6 foot with a 2 foot "handle" built in by the snap.

Methods: we've tried the switch-walking where we suddenly change directions to make him follow; we used to "pop" his leash, but that was a total failure; now I basically have him glued to my side with the 2 foot handle on the leash. I only give him slack when he goes to the bathroom. We've used other methods, but my mind is a blank right now.

He gets praise/rewards quite often, but I'm trying to wean him off rewards because I don't want him dependent on them.

I just don't understand why he's heeling off leash, but pulls when he's on leash.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Patch O' Pits » July 25th, 2006, 9:38 pm

have you tried a prong collar?
User avatar
Patch O' Pits
Welcome Wagger
 
Posts: 4426
Location: Northeastern, USA

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 9:41 pm

He LAUGHED at the prong. :shock:

And the gentle leader, the sporn, the choke collar, all the other harnesses, and every collar EXCEPT his Blocky martingale (zip it, Sue :D ). He loves that. :?
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Patch O' Pits » July 25th, 2006, 9:46 pm

LOL sounds like Samurai

Other ideas

How about food or a toy?

Have you taught a watch me command?

Have you tried just stopping and standing there until he stops pulling?

I'm brainstorming things that may help you?



.. Just start training for weight pull :wink:
User avatar
Patch O' Pits
Welcome Wagger
 
Posts: 4426
Location: Northeastern, USA

Postby a-bull » July 25th, 2006, 9:48 pm

Actually, you must be a good leader, because he wanted to stay by your side.

Alot of dogs that need leadership will gain confidence on a leash and behave with more zeal, wanting to explore more and consequently, pulling. I've actually found when I meet shy dogs at the shelter---you know, the ones huddled in the corners---if I snap a leash on them, they're like a new dog! Those are often dogs that need some leadership and are lost in a shelter environment.

Have you tried a Sporn?

I'm telling you, you haven't lived until you've seen how my girl use to pull. Even trainers were at a loss with her. I used the Sporn, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, she now wears a regular harness without pulling at all, and I can also snap a leash onto her collar with no pulling issues, (although I rarely use the collar).

Also, does he know the command "easy"? Any sense that I'm going to get pulling, (squirrels, etc.), and I dish out an "uh! easy." Other dogs get a "leave it."
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 9:51 pm

Yup, we use food and toys, but I'm trying to not make him dependent on those -- I want him to listen and do the actual command.

He does "watch me" very well for all other commands except walking.

I've attempted to stop and make him stop with me, but we're pretty evenly matched weight-wise, so I end up on my butt if he's REALLY determined. :D

Maybe I'll just use a 2 x 4 to get his attention.....

I might have to start him on weight pull, the booger.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby a-bull » July 25th, 2006, 9:52 pm

ooops, just read you already tried the Sporn.

Are you sure it was a Sporn, because I kept calling my Sporn a Halti once upon a time, which is a totally different theory---which I'm not a fan of---but I guess people have had luck with it. :|
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 9:53 pm

Nope, definitely a Sporn. Sporn doesn't work -- I returned it to Petco the next day, LOL.

He knows "leave it" but to him it doesn't apply to any mammal or flying insect. We're working on that, too.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Patch O' Pits » July 25th, 2006, 9:58 pm

Marinepits wrote:Yup, we use food and toys, but I'm trying to not make him dependent on those -- I want him to listen and do the actual command.

He does "watch me" very well for all other commands except walking.

I've attempted to stop and make him stop with me, but we're pretty evenly matched weight-wise, so I end up on my butt if he's REALLY determined. :D

Maybe I'll just use a 2 x 4 to get his attention.....

I might have to start him on weight pull, the booger.


What a brat LOL.... Ok Try this Run him until he is stinkin tired, and then walk him and work on the healing. Pick a method like the prong at this point and stick with it be consistent and try tp do it at least 3X per day at first for very short walks then gradually go longer

hope that helps you




Don't walk him any other time until he gets it. I think this will be your best bet. It works well with samurai this way
User avatar
Patch O' Pits
Welcome Wagger
 
Posts: 4426
Location: Northeastern, USA

Postby mnp13 » July 25th, 2006, 9:58 pm

He heeled so well without a leash... when you walk do you keep a loose leash or a tight one? When you pull tight, he will pull forward.

If treats and toys work, try using them 100% of the time until he is perfict, then phase them out slowly. He will come to understand that the treats are not predictable, so he needs to be good for a while and eventually he'll get his reward.

Are you sure you had a correctly fitting, correct size prong on him?

See... you should have come to the seminar at Chris'! :D
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby a-bull » July 25th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Marinepits wrote:Yup, we use food and toys, but I'm trying to not make him dependent on those -- I want him to listen and do the actual command.

He does "watch me" very well for all other commands except walking.

I've attempted to stop and make him stop with me, but we're pretty evenly matched weight-wise, so I end up on my butt if he's REALLY determined. :D

Maybe I'll just use a 2 x 4 to get his attention.....

I might have to start him on weight pull, the booger.


The only thing about not using food or toys is you have to start somewhere.

To train a certain behavior, you should use the toy or food every time---ye ol' positive reinforcement. Once the behavior is solid, you drop back to the ocassional toy or food (whichever one you choose), to implement that "intermittent reinforcement" we mentioned in another thread. The end result should be a dog that will perform the command everytime, because he's anticipating a reward, but not knowing when it will come. Eventually you'll find you don't need to rely on the toy or food.

Ya know, the same kind of reinforcement that creates gamblers, lol.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Hoyden » July 25th, 2006, 10:07 pm

You MUST go to a seminar with Chris. There is going to be one in Enfield VERY soon!

I spent ALOT of money trying to get Petey to walk without pulling. Between trainers, collars, harnesses and other gadgets, I could have gone on vacation somewhere tropical for at least a month.

I started Petey on the handler awareness after I went to the first seminar, then Chris worked with Petey briefly at the second seminar.

Petey, the dog who dragged me down the street bouncing on my boobs at the end of a leash, leaving road rash on my face and chest, will now walk without pulling on a flat collar.

I bribed Mark to go with me to the second seminar, and he came away worshipping at the training alter of Chris Fraize. (He has a nice big rock towards the side of the training field that would make a nice alter too :rock: )

When Chris gets back from Michigan, I'll be going over dates with him for a CT seminar.
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby katiek0417 » July 25th, 2006, 10:11 pm

a-bull wrote:
Marinepits wrote:Yup, we use food and toys, but I'm trying to not make him dependent on those -- I want him to listen and do the actual command.

He does "watch me" very well for all other commands except walking.

I've attempted to stop and make him stop with me, but we're pretty evenly matched weight-wise, so I end up on my butt if he's REALLY determined. :D

Maybe I'll just use a 2 x 4 to get his attention.....

I might have to start him on weight pull, the booger.


The only thing about not using food or toys is you have to start somewhere.

To train a certain behavior, you should use the toy or food every time---ye ol' positive reinforcement. Once the behavior is solid, you drop back to the ocassional toy or food (whichever one you choose), to implement that "intermittent reinforcement" we mentioned in another thread. The end result should be a dog that will perform the command everytime, because he's anticipating a reward, but not knowing when it will come. Eventually you'll find you don't need to rely on the toy or food.

Ya know, the same kind of reinforcement that creates gamblers, lol.


I agree totally....you should be using food, toys, whatever until he gets it perfect. A prong can then be used to "proof." (I don't like to use them to train)...Just b/c you start with treats/toys/whatever doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to use them.
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby Patch O' Pits » July 25th, 2006, 11:06 pm

I agree totally....you should be using food, toys, whatever until he gets it perfect. A prong can then be used to "proof." (I don't like to use them to train)...Just b/c you start with treats/toys/whatever doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to use them.


Yay what she said LOL

But I do feel training collars have a place in training not just proofing with some dogs
User avatar
Patch O' Pits
Welcome Wagger
 
Posts: 4426
Location: Northeastern, USA

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 11:24 pm

He heeled so well without a leash... when you walk do you keep a loose leash or a tight one? When you pull tight, he will pull forward.


No such thing as a loose leash with Mac. He'll charge right to the end and pull automatically.


Are you sure you had a correctly fitting, correct size prong on him?


Yup, and we adjusted it to him as he grew...and grew...and grew...

What a brat LOL.... Ok Try this Run him until he is stinkin tired, and then walk him and work on the healing. Pick a method like the prong at this point and stick with it be consistent and try tp do it at least 3X per day at first for very short walks then gradually go longer


Oh, he's a stinker! He really doesn't feel the prong -- we gave it almost a year, thinking he might adjust to it eventually, but he never did. I am going to tire his big butt out tomorrow and then try what you suggested.

The only thing about not using food or toys is you have to start somewhere.

To train a certain behavior, you should use the toy or food every time---ye ol' positive reinforcement. Once the behavior is solid, you drop back to the ocassional toy or food (whichever one you choose), to implement that "intermittent reinforcement" we mentioned in another thread. The end result should be a dog that will perform the command everytime, because he's anticipating a reward, but not knowing when it will come. Eventually you'll find you don't need to rely on the toy or food.

Ya know, the same kind of reinforcement that creates gamblers, .


I guess we'll start back at square one with the food. Good thing I just bought baby carrots the other day!

You MUST go to a seminar with Chris.


I'd love to, but I can't commit to anything right now. Get the Middle East to stop lobbing bombs, and then I'll see what my schedule looks like. :wink:
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Marinepits » July 25th, 2006, 11:25 pm

Seriously, thanks for all the good advice, folks! I'll keep you updated.....
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby a-bull » July 26th, 2006, 12:04 am

If you have a baby carrot lover, go wild! Can't hurt! :)
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby mnp13 » July 26th, 2006, 8:44 am

Marinepits wrote:
He heeled so well without a leash... when you walk do you keep a loose leash or a tight one? When you pull tight, he will pull forward.


No such thing as a loose leash with Mac. He'll charge right to the end and pull automatically.


but... without the leash on he walked very well, didn't he? Here's an experiment; do the same thing as yesterday and then very quietly clip the leash on. Keep working with him as if it is not there, and if/when he steps out of line give him a small tug on the leash.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Next

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users