Harness fitting and size

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Postby mnp13 » July 25th, 2006, 9:06 pm

lipshipsattitude wrote: Its hard to put so much love, time, money, and training into something and have someone TRY to make me feel that i need to explain myslef.


You know something? all I can go on is what YOU say. In the same post that you asked for harness info you stated that you use a gentle leader. Hmmmm... I wonder where I would have gotten the idea that your dog needs to be taught leash manners?

I've put much time, love, money, etc etc etc into my dogs as well. what's your point? People ask me to explain myself all the time.

that prong collars are for lazy peole who dont want to take the time out to train their dogs


lol from someone who has put a GL on their dog. Hi pot, this is kettle.
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Postby Maryellen » July 25th, 2006, 9:15 pm

lipship are you confusing me with michelle with your reply to me?
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Postby lipshipsattitude » July 25th, 2006, 9:26 pm

mnp13 wrote:
lipshipsattitude wrote: Its hard to put so much love, time, money, and training into something and have someone TRY to make me feel that i need to explain myslef.


You know something? all I can go on is what YOU say. In the same post that you asked for harness info you stated that you use a gentle leader. Hmmmm... I wonder where I would have gotten the idea that your dog needs to be taught leash manners?

I've put much time, love, money, etc etc etc into my dogs as well. what's your point? People ask me to explain myself all the time.

that prong collars are for lazy peole who dont want to take the time out to train their dogs


lol from someone who has put a GL on their dog. Hi pot, this is kettle.


Here, I offer you the last word, sleep well!
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Postby katiek0417 » July 25th, 2006, 9:37 pm

lipshipsattitude wrote:plus I came to the conclusion that prong collars are for lazy peole who dont want to take the time out to train their dogs. THAT is why we have taken three obediance classes, she now knows how to walk properly.



WHOA!!!!

That's a loaded comment. The purpose of a prong collar is so that the correction comes at the neck: where a dam's correction would be.

I use a prong collar on both of my dogs. And my older one is about to be shown for obedience (both on and off-lead and requiring perfect heeling patterns). I spend time EACH day working BOTH my dogs on obedience using both POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT and POSITIVE PUNISHMENT. I run with Sacha for 4 miles, and 1.5 miles with Nisha....

There are many people on this site who use prong collars and are not "lazy." They work hard to get good obedience out of their dogs. Please do not group us into this generalization.

And as an FYI, just b/c you're a trainer doesn't mean you know how to use a prong collar correctly...in fact, there was a whole discussion about this on another board I belong to - it is not about the correction, it is about the timing.
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Postby lipshipsattitude » July 25th, 2006, 9:50 pm

Katie,
I truly apologize for letting my frusteration get the better of me. My experience with the prong collar left my baby with abbrasions and blisters so I chose a different route. I TRULY apologize.
I find it hard to have to explain myself to people I seek for advice. It boils down to the fact that I hate the thought of having to lead my dog around her neck when it isnt necessary, I was thinking of her comfort and was labeled because of it. Thanks for your input everyone!
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Postby Fear_the_Sheeple » July 26th, 2006, 2:15 am

I love using a harness. Caesar walks nice on a leash, except for sometimes he will pull hard if he really wants to get somewhere. I really could not be happier with using a harness, I don't feel like I'm choking him and he walks just as nicely on it as a flat collar, if not nicer. I also feel like I have better control over him. I love being able to grab close to the harness and feel like I have control over his whole body, not just his neck. I don't understand why so many of you are against a harness?

I just got him a nylon one from petsmart... I didn't want to spend too much money on a harness before I knew whether or not he would be good in it. I really like it though, but some of those fancy pretty ones do grab my attention. :)

Image

ETA: Didn't answer your questions!

What size do your dog's wear?
What are some of the pro's and con's you've experienced while walking?
Is it a pain to put on?


I believe it's just a size large (he is 80lbs) and it is adjustable.
I can't think of any cons, and I hope I answered the pros above. :)
It's not a pain to put on at all. He sits nice and quiet, I put it over his head, pull a front leg through, and snap it together.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 7:13 am

I have a thread on collar comfort. Someone posted about a neat harness there. I also have an 11 yr old son which is antoher reason I like having a harness. I also have a short leash made for hooking harness to seat belt in car.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 7:22 am

Fear_the_Sheeple wrote:I love using a harness. Caesar walks nice on a leash, except for sometimes he will pull hard if he really wants to get somewhere. I really could not be happier with using a harness, I don't feel like I'm choking him and he walks just as nicely on it as a flat collar, if not nicer. I also feel like I have better control over him. I love being able to grab close to the harness and feel like I have control over his whole body, not just his neck. I don't understand why so many of you are against a harness?


I too do not understand the harness hate. I dont understand how a prong does not controll I understand it corrects but it seems to me a harness or flat collar also corrects if you pull back? Whatever. I have used a rope like choke collar called a Volhard I think. It works well for obedience. However when on a family walk or out in public I hate having to pull on the thing. I feel I have much more controll. For me its a family dog thing.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 7:39 am

Lips-Here is the harness someone posted on collar comfort thread. You may want to read that thread too there is stuff about harness. This website explains this type of harness as well as how to measure properly. http://www.puplife.com/dogsupplies/sense.html
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Postby mnp13 » July 26th, 2006, 8:40 am

rockermom wrote:I too do not understand the harness hate. I dont understand how a prong does not controll I understand it corrects but it seems to me a harness or flat collar also corrects if you pull back? Whatever. I have used a rope like choke collar called a Volhard I think. It works well for obedience. However when on a family walk or out in public I hate having to pull on the thing. I feel I have much more controll. For me its a family dog thing.


It's not harness "hate", it is a lack of understanding as to why people seem to want to control their dog instead of train their dog.

A prong collar is a training collar. Ideally, you use them and then transition back to a flat collar. When you get into the control harnesses, gentle leaders, etc you are controlling your dog, not training your dog.

When trained to walk correctly on leash, a dog is not "hauled around by their neck", as there is no pressure on their neck. You would not be "yanking" on their collar either.

A regular harness actually gives the dog more leverage to pull, as the pressure from the leash goes against their chest and they can fully lean into it. However, if your dog is already reliable and respects you, it will walk correctly anyway.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 11:18 am

OK I kind of understand what you are saying. I have used a "training collar" but not a prong and trained to heel. But when in certian situations I feel more comfortable with the harness so that I can get to point A-B with a friend or family member on a walk or hike etc where I dont want to constantly be correcting. But to me I see the choke controlling also because if it tightens he stops pulling. Prong pinches. Harness tightness on the chest. To me they are all some sort of controll. and need to transition to a flat collar. If Rocky tries to pull while in harness If I give a yank and say heel he heels. sometimes I switch back and forth between the collar and the harness. Whatever works for each person or family situation as long as it is not abuse is fine to me. I myself dont care for the prong collar however if I had an out of controll puller I might use it. Anyway sorry to go off of Lips question. Did you find a harness you like yet? THey can be expensive. I had bought the gl chest harness for a training class which we were alowed to use and then transition to flat collar. I only used it a couple of times and went back to martingale collar. "Training" collars were not accepted in this particular class. If you like the idea of the gl chest harness I would try the one someone posted which is the sens-ible harness. Its less expensive I want to ask the poster if they have to constantly adjust which is my gripe about the gl chest harness.
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Postby Maryellen » July 26th, 2006, 11:27 am

prong collars are better then choke collars. choke collars can collapse the trachea and cause severe damage as when you pulll on the leash the choke collar chokes around the dogs front of the neck.

the prong applies pressure around the entire neck, not just the front, and causes less damage then a choke..
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Postby mnp13 » July 26th, 2006, 11:42 am

rockermom wrote:OK I kind of understand what you are saying. I have used a "training collar" but not a prong and trained to heel. But when in certian situations I feel more comfortable with the harness so that I can get to point A-B with a friend or family member on a walk or hike etc where I dont want to constantly be correcting.


If you are constantly correcting, then you are making ineffective corrections. You shouldn't need more than one correction, two maybe. If you are constantly correcting your dog, you are not correcting you are nagging.

rockermom wrote:But to me I see the choke controlling also because if it tightens he stops pulling. Prong pinches. Harness tightness on the chest. To me they are all some sort of controll. and need to transition to a flat collar.


A prong pinches when you deliver a correction, any other time and the prong should be "relaxed". Again, if you have to keep on "popping" the collar then something is wrong.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 12:57 pm

It depends what you mean by keep popping. Here would be an example. Walk nice 100 ft ohhhh someone pooed there I think I gotta go sniff. He pulls I correct he comes back. Walk another 100 ft ohhh telephone pole gotta sniff pulls gets corrected. Where walking on harness walk whole way no pulling at all. If you mean "heel" pop, doesn not heel, "heel" pop no I said "heel"pop. Thats not what happens. If you mean start walk he pulls and give a pop and he never pulls again on the entire 2 mile walk? I sure would not mind that. Rocky does not pull an entire walk he pulls to get a sniff of something or when he has to poo I can usually tell by the way he pulls and his but hole is about to explode. He will walk along very nice and then all of a sudden pull hard to go sniff. Its a pain when you are with a friend trying to do a 2 mile walk in at least an hour would be nice. This is where the harness makes that easier so I would like to find out how to keep it from rubbing him raw. I may try wrapping the mole skin around the straps. Also remember someone saying something about some horse stuff was wondering what that was. I do have a tractor supply near by so anyone know what the horse stuff would be?
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Postby mnp13 » July 26th, 2006, 1:39 pm

that's exactly what I mean by "keep popping". Correction... walk 100 feet... correction... walk 100 feet... correction... etc. That is WAAAAAAAY too many corrections.

My dogs are not perfict by any means, but I can do my one mile loop with maybe two corrections most of the time. Sure, we have the occasional bad walk where they decide to be jerks, but the vast majority of walks don't need anything at all.
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Postby Fear_the_Sheeple » July 26th, 2006, 1:47 pm

It's not harness "hate", it is a lack of understanding as to why people seem to want to control their dog instead of train their dog.


Ohhhh, okay... you're saying using a harness as walking control...

I wasn't talking about using it to have him walk nicer, he walks great on a flat collar. :) Harness came second to training.
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Postby a-bull » July 26th, 2006, 2:10 pm

O.k.~We're going to confuse the daylights out of the original poster . . .

Here's the deal:

A Sporn, a Halti, a prong collar, etc.---They're all "devices" or "tools" that can be used to help train a dog to walk without pulling. None are magic. They all require work on the owners part as well.

A harness, a flat collar, etc.---Are simply choices of products that can be used to walk a dog . . . hopefully once they have been trained not to pull.


I, personally, prefer a tool such as a Sporn to help "train" my dog not to pull, along with voice command. Others prefer prong collars. I, personally, am not a prong collar person. It's all about preference and choice.

Once you get beyond preference and choice, you will find certain dogs respond well to some "devices" that other dogs do not.

I, as I have said, had fantastic luck using a Sporn as a device to help train my female not to pull. Now anyone can argue with me 'til the cows come home that I didn't "teach" her anything, that a Sporn is a tool/device for people who don't want to train their dog, that I shouldn't need a tool or device to train my dog, etc., etc. My response to that would be the proof is in the pudding---she can now be walked on a harness or a flat collar and she does not pull, when all else failed. I, personally, prefer a harness for all of the reasons I and others listed. You can not argue with success, whether you like my method of training or not, and it was all done in a positive fashion.

Some people will tell you they had no luck with a Sporn, but that they had great success with a prong. I don't like prongs . . . but be that as it may, I can't argue with a person who says they tried every other option to train their dog, and the only thing that worked was a prong, because it worked for them.

As long as no one is using methods which are considered cruel, I think it's awfully hard to argue with someone elses success.
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Postby lipshipsattitude » July 26th, 2006, 2:28 pm

Oh my! Thanks everyone, I checked out the comfort harness, but I'm gonna go buy a cheapy at Petco just to see how she does. It just boils down to the fact that I want her to be comfertable, thanks again!
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 4:11 pm

a-bull wrote:O.k.~We're going to confuse the daylights out of the original poster . . .

Here's the deal:

A Sporn, a Halti, a prong collar, etc.---They're all "devices" or "tools" that can be used to help train a dog to walk without pulling. None are magic. They all require work on the owners part as well.

A harness, a flat collar, etc.---Are simply choices of products that can be used to walk a dog . . . hopefully once they have been trained not to pull.


I, personally, prefer a tool such as a Sporn to help "train" my dog not to pull, along with voice command. Others prefer prong collars. I, personally, am not a prong collar person. It's all about preference and choice.

Once you get beyond preference and choice, you will find certain dogs respond well to some "devices" that other dogs do not.

I, as I have said, had fantastic luck using a Sporn as a device to help train my female not to pull. Now anyone can argue with me 'til the cows come home that I didn't "teach" her anything, that a Sporn is a tool/device for people who don't want to train their dog, that I shouldn't need a tool or device to train my dog, etc., etc. My response to that would be the proof is in the pudding---she can now be walked on a harness or a flat collar and she does not pull, when all else failed. I, personally, prefer a harness for all of the reasons I and others listed. You can not argue with success, whether you like my method of training or not, and it was all done in a positive fashion.

Some people will tell you they had no luck with a Sporn, but that they had great success with a prong. I don't like prongs . . . but be that as it may, I can't argue with a person who says they tried every other option to train their dog, and the only thing that worked was a prong, because it worked for them.

As long as no one is using methods which are considered cruel, I think it's awfully hard to argue with someone elses success.

THank you! I feel exactly as you do. As I said either here or on the collar comfort post I also own a sprone collar which I had not used much for Rocky since it belonged to another dog and did not really fit right. Can you post a picture of your dog wearing it I am curious as to how it should look since I no longer have package. Should the collar part be worn like a regular collar? with the straps going down through the 2 large rings on the top and hooking onto the small rings on the bottom? Thanks
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Postby a-bull » July 26th, 2006, 4:26 pm

I just use the regular harness now, so I gave the Sporn away---thus, no pictures of my girl in it.

Honestly, I don't remember how to put it on, but I don't remember a collar part, either. I do distinctly remember struggling to follow the directions in the package and asking a Petsmart trainer to help me figure it out.

If you purchased it at a Petsmart, a Petco, or some such place, they often have trainers around that can explain how to size it.
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