to correct or not to correct...that is my question.

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby cheekymunkee » July 24th, 2006, 2:07 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
SisMorphine wrote:
mnp13 wrote:I second the use of a "leave it" command.

Two or three barks are ok at my house, after that I've had enough!

Personally I would prefer a dog who would bark only when things feel . . . wrong. Not at everything and anything. I would be correcting for the innapropriate barking and praising for the barking that isn't annoying. i would think you'd have to be consistant, though, on what barking is okay and what isn't.



I always allow Nisha to bark a few times if SHE hears something. This is not a me-based decision. Her hearing is much keener than mine, she has often heard people coming towards my house before I have.

Many dogs can hear things before their human owners (has to do with sound wave vibrations and frequencies)....so, I don't correct unless it become incessant...


I agree. My dogs hear things I don't. I live in a nice neighborhood but there is always the possibility of crime. I have no problem with them barking to alert. None of them just to be barking though, there is always something that they see or hear. For the most part they bark until we are aware of what they are barking at. They will bark, then look at me like "come look at this!", once I acknowledge what they are seeing the quit for the most part, maybe a couple more barks but that is it. Outside is a different story though, they will bark until I bring them inside. Like I said I have no problem with it, I WANT people to know I have dogs here & to wonder if they will bite or not. They won't but not every one knows that, I'm ok with that.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

Debby
User avatar
cheekymunkee
I Have Your Grass
 
Posts: 28540
Location: Dallas

Postby a-bull » July 24th, 2006, 2:10 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:
SisMorphine wrote:
mnp13 wrote:I second the use of a "leave it" command.

Two or three barks are ok at my house, after that I've had enough!

Personally I would prefer a dog who would bark only when things feel . . . wrong. Not at everything and anything. I would be correcting for the innapropriate barking and praising for the barking that isn't annoying. i would think you'd have to be consistant, though, on what barking is okay and what isn't.



I always allow Nisha to bark a few times if SHE hears something. This is not a me-based decision. Her hearing is much keener than mine, she has often heard people coming towards my house before I have.

Many dogs can hear things before their human owners (has to do with sound wave vibrations and frequencies)....so, I don't correct unless it become incessant...


I agree. My dogs hear things I don't. I live in a nice neighborhood but there is always the possibility of crime. I have no problem with them barking to alert. None of them just to be barking though, there is always something that they see or hear. For the most part they bark until we are aware of what they are barking at. They will bark, then look at me like "come look at this!", once I acknowledge what they are seeing the quit for the most part, maybe a couple more barks but that is it. Outside is a different story though, they will bark until I bring them inside. Like I said I have no problem with it, I WANT people to know I have dogs here & to wonder if they will bite or not. They won't but not every one knows that, I'm ok with that.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 3:25 pm

a-bull wrote:I'm sorry, but having a dog that isn't allowed to bark is just ridiculous.

Dogs bark.

Dogs bark for MANY reasons---to warn, to communicate to their pack, to communicate in general (such as pain), to get attention . . . and like I said before, if your dog just barks incessantly, there is definitely an underlying issue, even if that issue is that you have created a naughty dog.

I'll never understand people who want certain animals, but then they don't like when that animal just does what it does naturally---cats scratching furniture, etc. I don't get it.

Not all cats claw furniture. Not all dogs bark.

If all dogs barked I would be out of a job since this is a no-bark boarding facility. Two of my dogs are quiet, one is a loud mouth. He barked himself into such a frenzy over a week ago that he vomited.

Yes, he is a shepherd. I knew of the "shepherd bark" thing, but frankly I had never experienced it. Between my two favorite aunts, they had 5 shepherds while I was growing up. Not a one was an incessant barker. If someone came to the door some of them were silent, some gave a single woof. I have no problem with a single alert woof. At all.
Halo's owners told me he was quiet, rarely ever barked. He was talkative (whining, grumbling, groaning) but didn't bark. Well their house wasn't as busy as mine is. What mostly sets him off is the front door bell, or foosteps on the front porch. He barks incessently, doesn't stop, and I can't correct him from a different room while I'm helping clients.

On Saturdays he is perfection! I have no clients coming or going on Saturdays, so no one is at the front door, and no one is on the front steps. Friends come to the back door, but that doesn't set him off. All it does is get him whining and dancing (like Wally) waiting for people to come in and give him lovin's.

So I got a dog believing it wouldn't be a barker but it turned into one. I do worry for his mental health here, being a shepherd and all, but look forward to when he goes into his retirement home. I firmly believe he will be quiet there. But not every dog is meant for every home. And living here is WAY too much for his little spastic shepherd head.

Also I currently have 18 dogs boarding with me. Two of them being GSDs. The GSDs bark when I go down into the kennel, but are quiet once they see it's me, and one will bark if another dog gets too close to his crate. Otherwise, out of the 18 dogs, they are quiet when they are here. So no, not all dogs bark. And I will never like, nor will I ever have again, a barking dog.

[ed note: by "bark" I mean "bark incessantly"]
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 3:27 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:
SisMorphine wrote:
mnp13 wrote:I second the use of a "leave it" command.

Two or three barks are ok at my house, after that I've had enough!

Personally I would prefer a dog who would bark only when things feel . . . wrong. Not at everything and anything. I would be correcting for the innapropriate barking and praising for the barking that isn't annoying. i would think you'd have to be consistant, though, on what barking is okay and what isn't.



I always allow Nisha to bark a few times if SHE hears something. This is not a me-based decision. Her hearing is much keener than mine, she has often heard people coming towards my house before I have.

Many dogs can hear things before their human owners (has to do with sound wave vibrations and frequencies)....so, I don't correct unless it become incessant...


I agree. My dogs hear things I don't. I live in a nice neighborhood but there is always the possibility of crime. I have no problem with them barking to alert. None of them just to be barking though, there is always something that they see or hear. For the most part they bark until we are aware of what they are barking at. They will bark, then look at me like "come look at this!", once I acknowledge what they are seeing the quit for the most part, maybe a couple more barks but that is it. Outside is a different story though, they will bark until I bring them inside. Like I said I have no problem with it, I WANT people to know I have dogs here & to wonder if they will bite or not. They won't but not every one knows that, I'm ok with that.

I live in a nice neighborhood too. But I would much rather a robber (or peeping Tom or whatever) come IN to my house and then realize that he's screwed. Maybe your dogs won't bite, but mine will. I know I'm safe. Plus I'd much rather see someone's face and have my dog keep him at bay while I call the cops, then have the person just move onto the next house.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 3:40 pm

SisMorphine wrote:I live in a nice neighborhood too. But I would much rather a robber (or peeping Tom or whatever) come IN to my house and then realize that he's screwed. Maybe your dogs won't bite, but mine will. I know I'm safe. Plus I'd much rather see someone's face and have my dog keep him at bay while I call the cops, then have the person just move onto the next house.


That's great in theory, unless the robber/rapist/whatever is armed with a gun. S/he shoots your dogs, then you're screwed.
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 3:47 pm

Marinepits wrote:
SisMorphine wrote:I live in a nice neighborhood too. But I would much rather a robber (or peeping Tom or whatever) come IN to my house and then realize that he's screwed. Maybe your dogs won't bite, but mine will. I know I'm safe. Plus I'd much rather see someone's face and have my dog keep him at bay while I call the cops, then have the person just move onto the next house.


That's great in theory, unless the robber/rapist/whatever is armed with a gun. S/he shoots your dogs, then you're screwed.

Well if he has a gun and is planning on shooting the dog he's not going to be detered by a dog barking anyway.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 4:02 pm

SisMorphine wrote:Well if he has a gun and is planning on shooting the dog he's not going to be detered by a dog barking anyway.


S/he may NOT be planning on shooting the dog unless they're put into a situation where shooting the dog becomes a necessity to achieving their goal of robbing you, or whatever.

We have several layers of home protection here and the loudest is the dogs. If the Bad Guy gets past the first few layers and actually makes it into the house, my dogs' barking will give me enough time to hit the panic button, call 911, let the dogs after him, and grab whatever weapon of choice I feel the need to use.

The point is that a barking dog is the best deterrent to someone intent on doing you harm. A robber/rapist/whatever is going to think twice about coming after you if you're forewarned by your own dog's barking.
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby a-bull » July 24th, 2006, 4:50 pm

I have also read that a barking dog is the best deterrent, Marinepits.

That's o.k., we'll be safe. :wink:
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 4:53 pm

Marinepits wrote:
SisMorphine wrote:Well if he has a gun and is planning on shooting the dog he's not going to be detered by a dog barking anyway.


S/he may NOT be planning on shooting the dog unless they're put into a situation where shooting the dog becomes a necessity to achieving their goal of robbing you, or whatever.

We have several layers of home protection here and the loudest is the dogs. If the Bad Guy gets past the first few layers and actually makes it into the house, my dogs' barking will give me enough time to hit the panic button, call 911, let the dogs after him, and grab whatever weapon of choice I feel the need to use.

The point is that a barking dog is the best deterrent to someone intent on doing you harm. A robber/rapist/whatever is going to think twice about coming after you if you're forewarned by your own dog's barking.


But someone who comes into the house with ill-intent will not be walking in a friendly manner, they will be walking sketchy. Which is something that sets my dogs off (and really should set all dogs off). They'd be able to see him through the sliding door before he got there. And if they came in through any OTHER door or window in the house, the dogs would be there in a milisecond barking (single woof and then growl), because as I said before, they bark when things are out of the ordinary and that definitely is (or if someone goes into the kennel who isn't me, those dogs will be barking their fool heads off).

If you see Mike snarling, you're going to back the hell off. This dog means business. Same with Wally. He has scared off many people just by grinning (his canines are of prehistoric size, I swear). But the difference is, if the guy enters Wally will most likely back off, though will put on a good show. Mike will take them down.

Once Mike is trained and can be loose in the house at night, I will feel very safe. Until then I have Wally to alert me and I have plans on how to get to Mike no matter where I am in the house, and/or where an intruder comes in.

Like I said, my dogs do alert, but silently (95% of the time Wally is in the same room I'm in . . . my house is tiny). So if they alert and I am scared for one reason or another I can give Wally the "sing" command. In and of itself, Wally singing isn't scary, but it sets off all the kennel dogs and Halo (not sure if it would set off Mike . . . I haven't tried it) into fits of barking. If I wanted to just scare someone off.

But if I do that they'd just move onto a different house. Why not get a good look at them and have a dog to keep them at bay while I call the police? Most criminals are willing to get shot but are very unwilling to get bit by a dog, which is why they're used in police work, and even more of a reason why they're used in prisons. I am willing to bet that unless the bad-guy gets a lucky shot, Mike would be on him before he could even think of aiming, nevermind pulling the trigger.

Frankly a barking dog isn't a security blanket for me. It's a dog who actually will protect that is.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby a-bull » July 24th, 2006, 5:00 pm

Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D

I know I am . . . and if my dogs don't do the trick, there's always my furniture scratching cats. :)
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby a-bull » July 24th, 2006, 5:16 pm

NcPrisonguard~

Here's a link about prey drive, and some different options for working with it:

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/what-makes ... page1.aspx
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 5:23 pm

a-bull wrote:Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D

I know I am . . . and if my dogs don't do the trick, there's always my furniture scratching cats. :)

I always thought Wally would protect me too (he has stood over my in my sleep, frothing and growling at my father, and did what I thought was protecting when he saved me from a renegade sock being blown across the room by the fan), but now that I have learned more I know that it was fear (forward fear, but still fear), and I know that most dogs won't protect you, no matter the breed. Is a mastiff mix more likely to protect? Sure. Just as the Akita in Mike makes him more likely to protect. But without being trained to do so it is based on fear, which automatically makes the dog more likely to continue to back up (flight) than protect (fight). You would be surprised the number of dogs and people I have seen in the past few months who came in thinking they had a good team and would be protected, only to have the dog be pushed and have him continue to back up. It was a good display, growling, barking, slight lunging, coming forward if the threat backed up, but that was it. My dogs will all display if threatened. But only one will actually carry out the threats. (Sidenote: All three are very dominant males, very forward, bomb-proof, unlikely to back up from most situations.)

The one that would protect me is the one going through training for it. I will tell you right now, I was PISSED when I was first told that it was fear and Wally wouldn't protect me. Pshh! What the hell did this guy know? He didn't know my dog, he wasn't there when he protected me from the guy who snuck in my room in the middle of the night (my father getting my keys). Wally's a dominant male, he will growl and foam and look vicious. I'm all set. Screw you, guy, you don't know crap about my dog.

But the more I learn about this kind of behavior, the more I realize that it's true, Wally most likely wouldn't follow through with the threats, though would threaten. Which in most cases would be enough, much like how you feel comforted by barking dogs.

Go up and watch bitework sometime and listen to it all explained as to why each dog acts differently when presented with threats and what it really means. It's a HUGE eye opener. Through bitework I am learning FAR more about behavior than I could have imagined existed.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 5:30 pm

a-bull wrote:Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D



Mac the Mastiff mix will undoubtedly put on the biggest show and look most intimidating, but from experience, it will be Indy who will tear out the throat of an intruder to my house, no questions asked.

I haven't seen Mac in full-blown action yet, so I don't know what he would do for sure. He certainly didn't like it when my bro took a swing at me, though. :D
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 5:40 pm

Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D



Mac the Mastiff mix will undoubtedly put on the biggest show and look most intimidating, but from experience, it will be Indy who will tear out the throat of an intruder to my house, no questions asked.

I haven't seen Mac in full-blown action yet, so I don't know what he would do for sure. He certainly didn't like it when my bro took a swing at me, though. :D

Yeah I have to retrain my "full contact" friends because Mike was brought to the shelter when he bit the owner's boyfriend while he was beating on her (Chris, please correct me if the story is different, but I believe that's what you said . . . god my mind is a friggin' vodka-laced siv (sp?)). No more rough housing around here!
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby a-bull » July 24th, 2006, 5:48 pm

Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D



Mac the Mastiff mix will undoubtedly put on the biggest show and look most intimidating, but from experience, it will be Indy who will tear out the throat of an intruder to my house, no questions asked.

I haven't seen Mac in full-blown action yet, so I don't know what he would do for sure. He certainly didn't like it when my bro took a swing at me, though. :D


Yes, it is probably Indy who will---if he has Catahoula in him, pretty good bet. They're big at guarding family, and often particularly guarding of one particular family member. They are also one of the few herders that use biting.

I wouldn't think a dominant dog would necessarily be protective---and infact I would assume a dog submissive to its' owner and well trained would be a better guardian.

"Bitework" isn't my cup of tea, thanks anyways, although I'm sure there's plenty that can be learned regarding behavior.
DISCLAIMER:

My posts are my own opinions unless otherwise stated. They are not necessarily correct for all dogs or all owners.
a-bull
I live here
 
Posts: 2926

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 5:49 pm

SisMorphine wrote:But if I do that they'd just move onto a different house. Why not get a good look at them and have a dog to keep them at bay while I call the police? Most criminals are willing to get shot but are very unwilling to get bit by a dog, which is why they're used in police work, and even more of a reason why they're used in prisons. I am willing to bet that unless the bad-guy gets a lucky shot, Mike would be on him before he could even think of aiming, nevermind pulling the trigger.

Frankly a barking dog isn't a security blanket for me. It's a dog who actually will protect that is.


Lys, I truly hope you're never put into that kind of situation. Your own reactions may surprise you. Most of us THINK we know what we'll do when placed in danger, but no one KNOWS until it happens.

And, no, most criminals are not "willing to get shot", any more than they are willing to get bit by a dog. They, like almost all other people, will not "willingly" expose themselves to any type of bodily harm. (The only exceptions I've found to this rule are firemen, professional soldiers, and some law enforcement.) The criminal's intent is to get you/your wallet/your goods as fast and as easily as possible. The more difficult you make their "job" the less likely they will want to mess with you.

My barking dogs are not used as a security blanket for me -- they are noise-making deterrents, court jesters, and occasional foot warmers, plus money-sucking furry children. I married my security blanket. :D
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 5:53 pm

a-bull wrote:Yes, it is probably Indy who will---if he has Catahoula in him, pretty good bet. They're big at guarding family, and often particularly guarding of one particular family member. They are also one of the few herders that use biting.



Damn dog is obsessed with me, LOL. He doesn't care about any other human on this earth and will NOT listen to any one else, much to Steven's annoyance. I love my Indy boy! :twisted:
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby Marinepits » July 24th, 2006, 5:55 pm

SisMorphine wrote:
Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:Marinepits didn't say her barking dog doesn't protect. He has Mastiff in him. She's probably all set. :D



Mac the Mastiff mix will undoubtedly put on the biggest show and look most intimidating, but from experience, it will be Indy who will tear out the throat of an intruder to my house, no questions asked.

I haven't seen Mac in full-blown action yet, so I don't know what he would do for sure. He certainly didn't like it when my bro took a swing at me, though. :D

Yeah I have to retrain my "full contact" friends because Mike was brought to the shelter when he bit the owner's boyfriend while he was beating on her (Chris, please correct me if the story is different, but I believe that's what you said . . . god my mind is a friggin' vodka-laced siv (sp?)). No more rough housing around here!


Just to clarify, my bro took a swing at me IN JEST. :wink: But Mac still got pissed and went after him, LOL.
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby SisMorphine » July 24th, 2006, 6:18 pm

Marinepits wrote:Just to clarify, my bro took a swing at me IN JEST. :wink: But Mac still got pissed and went after him, LOL.

I figured :) And I would hope!
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby NcPrisonguard » July 25th, 2006, 11:50 am

Thanks to those that responded to my question.. it wasn't so much about the barking as it was about the need to go after strange critters. He's killed two possums so far, but I can lose him if I am playing fetch in the yard and a rabbit shows up.. then he's off and running. But on the flip side he doesn't go after my cat or kitten with nearly the same level of aggression you can tell he is playing with the cats. But the rabbit.... well thats lunch if he catches it.
NcPrisonguard
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 22
Location: North Carolina

PreviousNext

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]