an issue that i'm fighting with tucker

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby babyreba » June 24th, 2006, 10:48 am

Tucker has had this intermittent thing with me where he really needs or wants to have battles of strength and/or wills . . . used to be that he'd start a tug of war with his leash and get so damn stubborn and kind of aggressive with it (not in an "i'm going to bite you way, but in an i'm not going to ever let go and i'm going to fight your attempt to control me" way) to the point that the only way to end it was for me to open the door to his crate or the back yard, push him through, shut the door, and walk away till he realized where his obnoxiousness landed him.

last time that happened was memorial day weekend, so i thought we'd kicked the bad habit.

but i just had another experience with him that was similar and i'm just not sure how to combat it.

we were out in the yard, had been playing ball and had a short game of tug-of-war. one of the kids next door was badgering me to "pet tucker," so when he came over, i picked him up and let her pet him. when i put him down, he went into full zoomie mode, but then started nipping at my hands and biting at my feet. i told him no and went to grab his collar and he made some nasty growly noises (kind of funny because they were not scary at all) and then took off. i tried to grab him a couple of times by the collar when he'd get near me, but then he'd snap at the air near my hand or arm and puppy-charge me with his teeth bared then zoom away . . . so i realized battling this was only going to fuel the game he was playing.

so i opted for redirection and went to the deck stairs and told him "up," and he did as asked and waited for me at the back door. i made him sit and down before i opened it, and for a split second i could see that devil face puppies make before they act up . . . but then thought better of it and waited till he got the OK from me to go inside.

i told him to get in his box and he went right to his crate and has been his usual self ever since.

this behavior to me is totallly unacceptable and i want to curb it, like yesterday. i know about NILIF, and i know how to implement it, but what i'm wondering is what to do when/if this behavior starts to put an end to it without making the game more fun.

tucker's only 8 months so he's still working on training and he's basically a work-in-progress . . .
User avatar
babyreba
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1132

Postby Maryellen » June 24th, 2006, 10:57 am

ahhh the age where they get bratty.. rufus and jesse did the same thing at this age, jesse more so and more hurtful then rufus, but both did it just the same, what i did was only allow them to play on leash, i took away all privileges and kept the leash on them at all times. this way if they started i could stop it . i also worked more on their obedience , sit, down, and kept a toy handy so that my arm/hand didnt feel the brunt of it... it does settle down after a while, its just a bratty stage...
Maryellen
I live here
 
Posts: 5971

Postby pitbullmamaliz » June 24th, 2006, 10:58 am

Sounds frustrating. I think you nailed it on the head when you realized that trying to chase after and grab his collar was only going to fuel the fire. I wish I had some helpful info for you, but my girl is only 8 months as well and she's also a lunatic some of the time! So I'm interested in hearing replies as well! I just wanted to offer some commiseration. :wink:
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby rockermom » June 24th, 2006, 11:14 am

For Rocky who went through this, someone shared these ideas with me back when I had these problems. pennies in a can (a tall arizona Ice tea can) I have heard a 16oz soda bottle is quite effective also. It was like some bad thing came out of the sky and told him you better never pull that again. You have to be sure to not let him see the can or see you shake it if possible. Like have it ready and toss it. It has to be at the exact moment he does the wrong thing. A spray bottle should do the trick too. Ive used that for off the couch cause Rocky would do zoomies onto couch and when you tried to pull him off same thing with the air snap stuff. couple of sprays and no more on the couch. Penny can also took care of severe counter surfing. Rocky would wait for us to lay on the couch and he would go counter surfing. One time I was waiting on the couch for Rocky to surf watching his reflection in the glass of the stove. As soon as the paws came off the ground the can came flying from the living room hitting the kitchen floor and that was the end of counter surfing. And he was bad with counter surfing. Stealing knives and running through the house. Had to put a stop to that. Rocky was younger though more like 5-6 months when he pullled this. I was sure I traumatized him forever cause he was crazy scared hiding behind the couch and all. But never counter surfed again.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby mnp13 » June 24th, 2006, 11:39 am

I'm not big on penny cans or squirt bottles.

It sounds to me like she was just being a wacko... You can't fuel it, but you can ignore it to an extent.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby msvette2u » June 24th, 2006, 12:01 pm

I thought ME's suggestion of keeping him on a leash at all times sounded great. Or at least keep a tab/short leash on him so you can grab it and give a correction.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby babyreba » June 24th, 2006, 12:09 pm

on-leash play or maybe just structured play might be the way to go.

i know i should try to ignore it when he gets like this, but sometimes it can be hard to ignore--especially when the little PuppyJerk comes running at you nipping at your hands and feet.

at least i know he's feeling back to his old self after surgery.
:!:
User avatar
babyreba
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1132

Postby rockermom » June 24th, 2006, 12:39 pm

Well I dont like using the sprayer or penny can. It was advice given to me that I did and it worked. When there are kids in the house or around some things have to be put to a stop right away. Like air snapping and steeling knives out of the sink and running through the house. The leash thing did not work and pulling him off the couch by his collar made him scared of me grabbing his collar. THe spray and can he did not know was me. He just knew it was a bad thing he did not like. The shaker can I only used 2x thats all was needed. Sprayed him only twice. I am definately not saying make a habit of it only use it as last resort. But I am wondering why some are not a fan of it.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby babyreba » June 24th, 2006, 12:42 pm

i actually do use a spray bottle from time to time. usually to stop tucker from chewing on his leash. it actually worked pretty well and pretty quickly.
User avatar
babyreba
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1132

Postby rockermom » June 24th, 2006, 12:50 pm

By the way Rocky goes into zoomie mode when kids come over especially teenagers. My teen plays the roughest with Rocky so he thinks big kids and men like to do this. Cause technically to Rocky my teen is a Man. Rocky does not usually play bitey face with me. He knows I dont like it. But men he always gives them a test. zooming around the house jumping rolling on his back opening his mouth. So I have also told my son he needs to tone down the way he plays with Rocky.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby Maryellen » June 24th, 2006, 1:02 pm

its easier to grab a dog off a couch with a leash on, this way you minimize the chance of getting bit.. maybe erin give him less privileges for now and keep a tabby leash or a long leash on him, you can also spray the leash where he bites it with bitter apple to prevent him from chewing his leash? the bratty stage for some is horrible, while others its not. jesse was a true demon at that age, i was pulling my hair out until i kept her leash on her and had it tied to me.. she lost all privileges and i went back to square one with her.
Maryellen
I live here
 
Posts: 5971

Postby katiek0417 » June 24th, 2006, 3:40 pm

rockermom wrote:I am definately not saying make a habit of it only use it as last resort. But I am wondering why some are not a fan of it.


Personally, I don't want my dogs afraid of things. With the working dogs, things can backfire, then you have a dog that is afraid. A good friend of mine has an awesome GSD, as a puppy she would correct him by shaking a coke bottle filled with rocks....well, this dog came from working lines, and she wanted to do protection sport with him....

One of the distractions used is a bottle with rocks. Well, this dog would RUN from it. It was the only thing he ran from....so, they worked him through it...but it was tough for a while....

I realized how careful you have to be with puppies....that's why I'm not a big fan of these types of "corrections" (another distraction is a hose in the face)....

If my dogs get on my nerves, they go in their crates. I don't get mad at them and throw them in there...I get treats, say "kennel," they both run in, they both get their treats....no bad....

As far as chewing on a leash....hot sauce (not tobasco) works wonders - mine like the taste of bitter apple....also, those leashes that are chains (except the handle)...unchewable....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby mnp13 » June 24th, 2006, 4:25 pm

katiek0417 wrote:.also, those leashes that are chains (except the handle)...unchewable....


you are so funny! anything that fits in a Pit Bull's mouth is chewable! :D
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby katiek0417 » June 24th, 2006, 4:45 pm

mnp13 wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:.also, those leashes that are chains (except the handle)...unchewable....


you are so funny! anything that fits in a Pit Bull's mouth is chewable! :D


The one I had was steel....the same steel used for the Sprenger collars....Sacha would chew on, but wouldn't get anywhere...it was pretty funny to see the frustration on her face!!!!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby concreterose » June 24th, 2006, 5:22 pm

Awww...puppy devils. I sure don't miss THAT stage of development. Vicki went thru the exact same phase, at about the same age as tucker. I quickly learned that losing it and grabbing/trying to catch her only fueled the fire, plus pissed me off more. I did what ME said, NO freedom, she was always on leash, even in the house, and honestly, during that stage of her life, I did NOT play with her at all unless there was some obedience work attached. It was a pain, but it worked. During that time, she practiced a lot of downs and stays, and then I let her play...she was a lot calmer playing after obedience sessions. Luckily, that stage didn't last long, and the nipping and chasing, generally being obnoxious faded.
User avatar
concreterose
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 719

Postby rockermom » June 24th, 2006, 7:16 pm

concreterose wrote:Awww...puppy devils. I sure don't miss THAT stage of development. Vicki went thru the exact same phase, at about the same age as tucker. I quickly learned that losing it and grabbing/trying to catch her only fueled the fire, plus pissed me off more. I did what ME said, NO freedom, she was always on leash, even in the house, and honestly, during that stage of her life, I did NOT play with her at all unless there was some obedience work attached. It was a pain, but it worked. During that time, she practiced a lot of downs and stays, and then I let her play...she was a lot calmer playing after obedience sessions. Luckily, that stage didn't last long, and the nipping and chasing, generally being obnoxious faded.


Oh thats good to hear. Rocky is almost a year and starting to calm. I thought is was the heat.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby Maryellen » June 28th, 2006, 5:52 pm

soo how is tucker doiong??
Maryellen
I live here
 
Posts: 5971

Postby babyreba » June 28th, 2006, 6:15 pm

he's still a brat. but he's doing OK.

i decided not to begin with physical corrections, as they seem to be causing him to become more excited rather than less . . . so i decided to go with some advice i got suggesting using deliberate and slow body postures and vocalizations to tone things down when he gets out of control, then change the behavior and channel his energy into something positive and cooperative instead. shockingly, it is working well.

he started to get uppity with me a couple of days after i posted this, and i stopped moving, looked at him and said in a super deep, low voice "what did you do?" what did you do is what i ask all the dogs when they've done something practically unforgivable. like get caught with the remote control in their mouths or some such. so that's always a signal to the dog that something very, very bad has happened in dogland.

he looked at me for a second, came near and put his mouth on my hand, so i said it again, and he turned away from me and got his ball instead.

this happened a couple of times and so far stopping, and changing my gears has caused him to self-correct. yesterday and this morning, instead of zooming into me and trying to bite on my hands or feet, he zoomed right up to me and landed at my feet in a sit. i rewarded him when he did that by throwing the ball for him.

hopefully we are on the right path here and we can keep tucker in control. he certainly keeps me on my toes.
User avatar
babyreba
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1132

Postby Marinepits » June 28th, 2006, 6:33 pm

That sounds great! Glad to hear he's making progress! :clap:
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby pitbullmamaliz » June 28th, 2006, 8:45 pm

Yay!!! :rock:
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Next

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users