I want to hog tie Harlow!

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby pitsnok » February 23rd, 2011, 12:31 am

Okay I know the Okie in me just came out... and no I don't REALLY want to hog tie her, but I'm at my wits end! Harlow's 'playing' has gotten way too extreme lately. She has always been the vocal one, and has always snarled like a lion or something while playing, but lately it is out of control! Her noises are non-stop, and her playing is much more brutal. I can tell it's still play, but I know it's not okay for it to be so harsh. She has always played really nicely with Boss, but now she has gotten rough with him, too. I just think it's crazy that now after all this time her play is changing... She is about 2 and a half we think... not really sure. Maybe she's just a late bloomer?

I've been trying to stop play time and make her sit for a minute or so whenever she is too amped up, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good.

I'm just at a loss because my little delicate flower (yeah right) has turned into a beast of a dog!
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
User avatar
pitsnok
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 365
Location: Edmond, OK

Postby call2arms » February 23rd, 2011, 12:51 am

2 isn't necessarily a late bloomer... Depends on the dog. But getting rough doesn't mean she's blooming, she's probably just getting a little big in her breeches here.

No advice on how to curb this though. Maybe constructive playtime, like interacting with them more instead of letting them playfight? Sort of like train/play mixture?
“Your birth is a mistake you'll spend your whole life trying to correct.” Chuck Palahniuk


I love pus but I hate people.

I can say words like undifferentiated gonads now!
User avatar
call2arms
Boys Stink
 
Posts: 2349
Location: sunshine, lollipops and rainbows everywhere...

Postby BigDogBuford » February 23rd, 2011, 12:59 am

Yeah, it sounds like for whatever reason she might need a little more structure right now. Usually when I have a dog like that, I put them in their crate or tie down and make them sit out and watch while I work or train my other dogs. This could just be practicing sit/down in the house but I always try to make it Super Happy Fun Time! By the time I get to working with the naughty dog they are super happy to be doing ob work.
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby SisMorphine » February 23rd, 2011, 1:02 am

My Teeny played in daycare with other dogs from 8 weeks until 2.5 years old. At 2.5 she put holes in two dogs in a matter of a week.

Also I find in my daycare that MANY dogs (no matter breed) become inappropriate for daycare between 2 and 3 years old because they either start to play too rough or have no tolerance for yougun' bullshit.

Has she had any experience breaking from play to do OB, and then going back into play? That may help with the in-home play sessions.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby BigDogBuford » February 23rd, 2011, 1:06 am

SisMorphine wrote:Also I find in my daycare that MANY dogs (no matter breed) become inappropriate for daycare between 2 and 3 years old because they either start to play too rough or have no tolerance for yougun' bullshit.


This...so much this.
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby pitsnok » February 23rd, 2011, 2:00 am

SisMorphine wrote:My Teeny played in daycare with other dogs from 8 weeks until 2.5 years old. At 2.5 she put holes in two dogs in a matter of a week.

Also I find in my daycare that MANY dogs (no matter breed) become inappropriate for daycare between 2 and 3 years old because they either start to play too rough or have no tolerance for yougun' bullshit.

Has she had any experience breaking from play to do OB, and then going back into play? That may help with the in-home play sessions.



No we have never really done that. Usually we keep play time and training time completely separate.


It's strange because she IS the 'youngin'... and she has always humped and has always had bad 'puppy' manners and everything with Degan, who has always tolerated it or stopped her whenever she's taken it too far. But with Boss and Ollie, and any other 'new' dogs she has always been really dainty and sweet and careful with her play. She gets MUCH less time with Boss than she did with Ollie though, because when Boss has had enough, he has had enough. Their play time is very very supervised with no toys or anything.

Now it seems like she is just trying WAY TOO HARD to be in control...even though she really always has been...we joke about wanting to get her a tag that says, "HBIC"...

I can't help but think maybe now that the weather is nicer everyone just has more energy and is much more... gung-ho about things... haha. I know that's how I feel, anyway.

I will work on doing some more training work with her rather than just play time. I think we don't typically focus on things like that with her because her attention span seems to be the equivalent to that of a goldfish so... it's not usually all that productive, haha.
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
User avatar
pitsnok
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 365
Location: Edmond, OK

Postby TheRedQueen » February 25th, 2011, 7:40 pm

My question is...how are the other dogs responding?


Here's my favorite article on problem players:
http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/mo ... em-players
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby amalie79 » February 25th, 2011, 10:38 pm

Well, Boss isn't a "new" dog anymore. :|

I seem to remember Nancy (Tiva) talk about a game from Control Unleashed that involves getting the dog really really amped up and then asking him to stop. It teaches him to have an "off" switch. I'm actually ordering the book, so I haven't read it personally. Maybe someone who has can comment...

I know we do that with Robin. We get her playing all sorts of stoopid hucklebutt thrashing around snarling and then ask for a "settle" and a "wait" and the game stops completely unless she complies. If she complies, we take a break and then go at it again. She's not 100%, but she gets better.

Robin really has very bad play manners. So far, I've only let her play with my dogs and my mother's because my mother's dog is so easy-going and tolerant. But I want her to have more playmates. Ugh. I wish that book would hurry up and get here!!
"In these bodies, we will live; in these bodies we will die.
Where you invest your love, you invest your life." --Marcus Mumford

--Amalie
User avatar
amalie79
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 633

Postby furever_pit » February 26th, 2011, 11:30 pm

I agree that you should work training and playtime together. That will help get her to focus on you when you ask her to when she is playing with the other dogs. The trick is also to catch her before she starts escalating her play to an inappropriate level.

Have you done any work on teaching the dogs to be neutral to one another? Or is it all just play time when they are out together?
User avatar
furever_pit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1138
Location: NC

Postby pitsnok » February 28th, 2011, 4:18 am

Sorry for taking so long to reply, I have been VERYYYYY busy this week...

Hopefully I won't miss any of the questions.
TheRedQueen wrote:My question is...how are the other dogs responding?


It varies. When Boss is in a playful mood he will tolerate it for a bit... but he has 'yelled' at her a few times and that's usually when Harlow goes back into her crate. (Luckily Boss has greatly improved his bite inhibition.)
Degan... well he just keeps playing like usual.

amalie79 wrote:I know we do that with Robin. We get her playing all sorts of stoopid hucklebutt thrashing around snarling and then ask for a "settle" and a "wait" and the game stops completely unless she complies. If she complies, we take a break and then go at it again. She's not 100%, but she gets better.


I REALLY wish this happened with us. It's hard because when we try to get her to chill out, and just sit or do something else she usually just thinks that we are playing... She's a very odd girl, haha.
I think this is a specific problem of Harlow's really bad self control... it's like "OHMYGODIAMSOEXCITEDIAMPLA-" "oh okay yeah I can sit, Mom. Look I'm a good gi-" "THISISTHEMOSTEXCITINGDAYOFMYLIFE!!" and really... that sums her up in a nutshell, haha.

furever_pit wrote:Have you done any work on teaching the dogs to be neutral to one another? Or is it all just play time when they are out together?


I would say that 70% of the time it is neutral. They just hang out, chew on bones, run around, 'explore' the bushes in the yard, try to catch squirrels, nap, etc... and not always at the same time. They have always played 'rough', and Harlow has always been really vocal, it just seems as if lately she is ALWAYS vocal during play, and can't seem to stop when asked to (by us, or one of the other dogs).
~Brittany, Degan and Harlow's mom


"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm."
User avatar
pitsnok
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 365
Location: Edmond, OK

Postby TheRedQueen » February 28th, 2011, 8:27 am

pitsnok wrote:
amalie79 wrote:I know we do that with Robin. We get her playing all sorts of stoopid hucklebutt thrashing around snarling and then ask for a "settle" and a "wait" and the game stops completely unless she complies. If she complies, we take a break and then go at it again. She's not 100%, but she gets better.


I REALLY wish this happened with us. It's hard because when we try to get her to chill out, and just sit or do something else she usually just thinks that we are playing... She's a very odd girl, haha.
I think this is a specific problem of Harlow's really bad self control... it's like "OHMYGODIAMSOEXCITEDIAMPLA-" "oh okay yeah I can sit, Mom. Look I'm a good gi-" "THISISTHEMOSTEXCITINGDAYOFMYLIFE!!" and really... that sums her up in a nutshell, haha.


IMO, you're not being clear enough then, if she thinks that you're playing. Dogs aren't all born with self-control...very few are. They're dogs and they do dog things, and we expect them to behave in certain ways without helping them.

When you say that you try and get her to chill out...what do you do? What has she been doing before being asked to chill. What do you expect from her when you ask her to "chill", and how do you help her to do this?

Puzzle is a really loud, body-slamming kind of player...and not all dogs appreciate her play style. Dogs that do, they get along great...dogs that don't...she annoys the crap out of them. I've been working on getting her attention at home and in less distracting environments...calling her for treats. We went on an off-leash dog hike on Saturday...I kept feeding her for checking in with me on the hike...and she even called away from playing...because she knew the history was "go to mom, get good treats". But I didn't expect it right away...it takes time and patience.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby amalie79 » February 28th, 2011, 11:06 am

Robin wasn't always able to go into a settle, and she still doesn't always. Life is EXCITING!!!ZOMG!

Here's the post from Nancy (Tiva)'s blog that I was thinking of...

http://vanyaproject.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ranha.html

When Robin doesn't comply, I look away, make like a tree, and/or get the look on my face that says, "I'm done. Period." After she's calmed down to the point where I can pet her without her thinking that this all part of a new awesome game (and that's not always immediate), we can play again.

Control Unleashed has apparently been useful with Vanya-- I came across the blog when researching CU, and it's one of the reasons I wanted to read it. I ordered it last night so I can follow along in the book study group. :)

As a tandem to Erin's treats for checking in, I've been working on some of the CU foundation games/skills. This weekend, both the girls stood around the yard with me on leash and got a click and treat for making eye contact. Sometimes, we even got to move forward, further down the sidewalk. No pressure-- it was windy and warm, so there were lots of things to smell and watch, but also a lot of great rewards for looking at mom. I'm hoping this will foster a lot more attention to the human and less attention to everything else.
"In these bodies, we will live; in these bodies we will die.
Where you invest your love, you invest your life." --Marcus Mumford

--Amalie
User avatar
amalie79
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 633


Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]