tiva wrote:My perspective: all of these are management tools; a flat collar and leash are just as much management tools as a prong or e-collar.
Anything you can put on a dog and have it "work like magic" is a management, not training. "15 minutes to manners on leash" is management using a prong collar, and is about the only time that I teach using corrections (and I'm pretty sure I state that in the thread.)
You don't hear many people say "today I put a flat buckle collar on my dog and she walked without pulling for the first time EVER, it was amazing!!" In fact, I have never heard it in the 8 years that I've been on forums.
"Magic" results aren't magic, they are results that depend on a harness/tool/collar/whatever. When that item isn't present, the results go away.