Mindy Lou bit my daughter's hand!!!!

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Postby TheRedQueen » February 8th, 2010, 9:22 pm

amazincc wrote:All I can say is that I find "hugs-by-strangers" (actually by most people, really) very uncomfortable... talk about having your space invaded with no way out. :shock:

If you're patting/petting/scratching a dog they can remove themselves pretty easily, most of the time... to me that's the equivelant of a hand shake, and I'm okay w/that.


:clap:
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Postby Marinepits » February 9th, 2010, 9:22 am

chako wrote:While I'm not saying a hug is in a dog's vocabulary of body language... I don't find that the VAST majority of dogs dislike hugging. Most dogs seems to like any attention from their people.... Petting, hugs, even eye contact (Generally, dogs don't maintain eye contact with one another, but many dogs sustain eye contact with people for various reasons that have nothing to do with trying to be aggressive, dominant, or any of the other things some people associate with 'eye contact" and dogs). Sometimes the eye contact is taught. Sometimes it's not. Some dogs just do it because they find it works to get them what they want (treats, attention, etc.) or because they're taking cues. In fact, the domestic dog is way ahead of both chimpanzees and wolves (even those raised with humans) in correctly interpreting human body language. I have that study somewhere on my hard drive. I can dig it up upon request.... I hope! :)

-Dawn-


I'd love to read more about that!

We never taught Katy, Indy, or Tucker to hug. They all do it "naturally". When we first met Katy, she ran out of her kennel straight to Steven (who was crouching down) and threw her front legs right around his waist, burying her head under his chin. He had to pry her off him, LOL. That's why we ended up adopting her -- she definitely chose HER boy. :) She still does it to this day, although just a bit slower, especially when he comes home from work.

Anytime I'm sitting or crouching down at Indy's level, he will bury and rub his head right into my chest and stay there as long as I let him. If I'm sitting down, he'll put his front legs around my waist and then bury/rub his head on my chest. Every other body-language signal of his shows he's totally relaxed. Right now, because my hair is so long, he'll rest his head on my shoulders under my ears and just snuffle and sigh into my hair. I usually don't initiate this behaviour, but if I do he has no problem with me doing so. He'll also do this with Dr Blabs and my sister-in-law, but rarely with anyone else.

Tucker has always loved to run up to standing people (that he knows) and give them "bear hugs". He'll lock his legs around your waist, then slowly relax and slide down your legs as you pet him. Beware if you're wearing loose pants! :lol3: He's always initiated the behaviour and will gladly do it if you pat your waist -- he jumps right up for a "hug".

Shorty takes any human contact as an invitation to Wrestle Mania -- give her a hug and she's a lunatic! Mac is very aloof with most human-initiated contact -- he generally only allows himself to be touched on his terms and I would *never* hug him. It's just not something he either wants or enjoys.
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 9th, 2010, 9:29 am

Marinepits wrote:
chako wrote:While I'm not saying a hug is in a dog's vocabulary of body language... I don't find that the VAST majority of dogs dislike hugging. Most dogs seems to like any attention from their people.... Petting, hugs, even eye contact (Generally, dogs don't maintain eye contact with one another, but many dogs sustain eye contact with people for various reasons that have nothing to do with trying to be aggressive, dominant, or any of the other things some people associate with 'eye contact" and dogs). Sometimes the eye contact is taught. Sometimes it's not. Some dogs just do it because they find it works to get them what they want (treats, attention, etc.) or because they're taking cues. In fact, the domestic dog is way ahead of both chimpanzees and wolves (even those raised with humans) in correctly interpreting human body language. I have that study somewhere on my hard drive. I can dig it up upon request.... I hope! :)

-Dawn-


I'd love to read more about that!



Pick up a copy of Alexandra Horowitz's new book, "Inside Of A Dog"...she discusses the differences between wolves, chimps and dogs at length, using these studies and more.

8)

And yes, there are always dogs that don't go with the norm...but dogs don't generally engage in hugging...even though everyone cries..."My dog does!"
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby Marinepits » February 9th, 2010, 9:40 am

TheRedQueen wrote:And yes, there are always dogs that don't go with the norm...but dogs don't generally engage in hugging...even though everyone cries..."My dog does!"


I'm not "crying out" anything or trying to disprove anything, just sharing my experience. My dogs run the full range and I think it's really interesting considering they all live in the same environment.
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 9th, 2010, 9:48 am

Marinepits wrote:
TheRedQueen wrote:And yes, there are always dogs that don't go with the norm...but dogs don't generally engage in hugging...even though everyone cries..."My dog does!"


I'm not "crying out" anything or trying to disprove anything, just sharing my experience. My dogs run the full range and I think it's really interesting considering they all live in the same environment.


Sorry, bad choice of words...;) Wasn't trying to target you in particular. I've got the same thing at my house...as I mentioned in my longer post. I've got dogs that love to snuggle up to me in hug fashion, and those that don't. I think a lot of it has to do with how well they do with restraint. But if you really look at photos with smiling humans with their arms around dogs, MOST dogs don't look thrilled. Not "I'm going to rip your face off" angry, but just less than enthused. I can show you pics of MY dogs with the same look. Whether or not dogs have been domesticated and are different than wolves doesn't mean that they're not still canines. Canines don't hug. :|

Now I'm off to find pics... :dance:
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 9th, 2010, 9:53 am

Here's a blog post from Dr. McConnell with a brief discussion on hugging...

http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/hugging/

And yes, I am human...and I LOVE to hug...my dogs all accept hugging from me... 8) and I like to think that they've learned to enjoy the contact. ;)

The Wiener for instance is interesting...people WANT to hug, hold, cuddle him. He's only 9 pounds...perfect for that, right? Except he doesn't really enjoy it...especially when other dogs are playing and he wants to go, go, go. But inevitably I have to tell people in puppy class (afterwards during playtime) or at flyball..."don't pick him up, he wants to play!" Every time...because people just can't help it, they want to snuggle with him, despite his wiggling. lol
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 9th, 2010, 9:58 am

Here we go...this explains it better than I'm doing...:)

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/hugs.htm

It's copyrighted, so I'm just posting the link, not the entire article!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby furever_pit » February 9th, 2010, 11:22 am

My pup, Gator, is one of those that does not enjoy hugging...at all. He just doesn't like to be restrained and he gets worried if he can't make his own choices. This isn't to say he doesn't snuggle cause he does, but he doesn't hug.

Dylan will tolerate a hug from me, but he's not thrilled about it. I don't actually make him let me hug him anymore once I realized what he was trying to tell me.

To the OP, I am glad that you are making progress. I hope that the situation and behavior continues to improve for you.
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Postby mnp13 » February 9th, 2010, 7:55 pm

Marinepits wrote:Anytime I'm sitting or crouching down at Indy's level, he will bury and rub his head right into my chest and stay there as long as I let him.

I think that we call this a "hug" but it is different than what we are talking about in this instance with a child.

When Riggs sits next to me he pushes his head against me, he likes to put his head under my chin and lean in. He knows this will get him petting and scratching - and I usually even say to him "oh, do you need some hugging?". However, he also does not like to be actually hugged, as in wrapping my arms around him and squeezing.

I think many dogs like contact and affection, and lean into us to get it because they know that that will get them the attention they want. It is the restraint that they don't seem to like in general. They seek out touch, but not being "held" persay.

The horse I used to lease, which oddly enough was Riggs' twin in many ways (from his markings to his build to his attitude) was very afraid of restraint. He'd lean against you, and practically knock you over if you weren't careful, but if you wrapped your arms around him he freaked. He wanted contact and attention, but not to feel that he couldn't remove himself easily. He liked the comfort of touch a lot though.
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Postby Marinepits » February 9th, 2010, 8:34 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Marinepits wrote:Anytime I'm sitting or crouching down at Indy's level, he will bury and rub his head right into my chest and stay there as long as I let him.

I think that we call this a "hug" but it is different than what we are talking about in this instance with a child.


I know what a "hug" is. :wink: I said above in my post that Katy, Indy, and Tucker will all throw their front legs around our waists in addition to the snuggling. This, of course, makes me "hug" them right back.

Not one of them has a problem with any kind of restraint as long as they initiate the behaviour. Tucker is the only one of the three that doesn't care for human-initiated restrait -- Katy and Indy are fine with it.
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