katiek0417 wrote:And, , I'm not running from this discussion...however, I do have about 120 exams to grade this weekend (I will willingly accept volunteer help ), and would actually like to spend some time with Greg...so if I don't get on here the rest of the weekend, it's not b/c I don't want to continue in the discussion...I'm just trying to get this crap-ola done!
maberi wrote:I agree a dog might increase a reactive behavior (hiding, running to its owners) if those behaviors reduced their anxiety, fear, etc.... If that is the case, and those behaviors end up reducing the fear, (new people approaching, etc..) is this a bad thing? I would think reducing a dogs fear of something would be much harder than reducing an operant behavior (whatever that might be)
From my understanding (could be totally wrong so let me know), when we are discussing fear, there is the emotional response, which is affected by classical conditioning and the behavioral response, which is affected by operant conditioning.
maberi wrote:katiek0417 wrote:And, , I'm not running from this discussion...however, I do have about 120 exams to grade this weekend (I will willingly accept volunteer help ), and would actually like to spend some time with Greg...so if I don't get on here the rest of the weekend, it's not b/c I don't want to continue in the discussion...I'm just trying to get this crap-ola done!
Likely excuse
Then, rather than taking the dog or the feared object away when the dog was being aggressive, I made the owner ignore the dog when it got aggressive, while keeping the feared object around...as soon as the dog calmed down, the object went away...so now the feared object (bad thing) goes away when the dog is calm so that the CALMNESS is the behavior that becomes increased...in the process, hwoever, it also desensitized the dog to the object...and desensitization is a principle of classical conditioning
katiek0417 wrote:With a different dog that was afraid of men (but not aggressive), I used marker training to work with the dog. I had Greg sit on the ground with his back to the dog...when the dog would take the tiniest step forward, I would mark the behavior and give the treat. This way, the food WASN'T coming from Greg (if it was, then we could say that there was more classical conditioning going on)...so, coming from me, the food was an actual consequence....does that make sense?
maberi wrote:Then, rather than taking the dog or the feared object away when the dog was being aggressive, I made the owner ignore the dog when it got aggressive, while keeping the feared object around...as soon as the dog calmed down, the object went away...so now the feared object (bad thing) goes away when the dog is calm so that the CALMNESS is the behavior that becomes increased...in the process, hwoever, it also desensitized the dog to the object...and desensitization is a principle of classical conditioning
What did you categorize as CALMNESS in this situation?
maberi wrote:katiek0417 wrote:With a different dog that was afraid of men (but not aggressive), I used marker training to work with the dog. I had Greg sit on the ground with his back to the dog...when the dog would take the tiniest step forward, I would mark the behavior and give the treat. This way, the food WASN'T coming from Greg (if it was, then we could say that there was more classical conditioning going on)...so, coming from me, the food was an actual consequence....does that make sense?
In this situation are you teaching the dog to step forward or to not be fearful to men?
plebayo wrote:Okay, I don't think fear in itself can be rewarded, however I think a fear based behavior can.
Let's say your dog is afraid of new people, and every time you meet a new person, or walk by a new person the dog hides behind you, stops walking, cowers, etc. If you coddle the dog in this situation you are telling the dog "I like this behavior." So every time a new person comes into the picture the dog cowers, and you reinforce this behavior by petting the dog, talking to the dog etc. Then it simply becomes a conditioned response for both you and the dog because the dog cowers because that is what you have taught it to do, and you fall all over the dog cooing and petting it.
Also - it is one thing for your dog to be afraid of a thunderstorm - a legit scary thing. However I can't tell you how many dogs come in for nail trims, the owner wants to see how it's done. The dog is trying to bite us and the owner is saying "it's okay! It's okay!" No it isn't okay that your dog is trying to bite us, it isn't okay that your dog isn't holding still. Just like dog's who get afraid of certain flooring after slipping and falling instead of saying "It's okay!" you should be saying - "It's okay, I know you're afraid, but you still have to walk across this scary floor and get over it."
You may not flood your dog with scary things, but what you are doing here by preventing the dog from escaping and forcing it to face it fears is flooding.
How do you know in the situation below the dog isn't actually "thunderstorm fearful" and is just being "unreasonable"? My guess is that this isn't fear but more like the dog has learned that biting makes the adversive go away, which has nothing to do with what we are talking about
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