Breaking up Dog Fights

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Postby DemoDick » October 29th, 2009, 12:32 am

TheRedQueen wrote:
Here's the thing about 97% of "dog experts." They are stone cold stiff and boring.


What dog experts are you watching? (other than your one example that is...) I have been to many seminars, and attended Clicker Expo last year...and saw many big-name trainers...and have been not only educated, but highly entertained. (and by entertainment, I don't mean repeatedly bashing Cesar Millan).


I really don't think he's ever met a real-life expert. I've trained with a few, and I was anything but bored. I was like a kid in a candy store.

Of course, "expert" doesn't mean what it used to. ;)

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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 12:59 am

DemoDick wrote:
dogtvcom wrote:
In other words, only people with "real" pitbulls they can't control understand "real" dog aggression. People like you?

mp


The control I have on my dog is excellent. It's a level of performance that you should aspire to. I can give you training advice when you need it. All you have to do is ask.

Demo Dick



How do I crate and rotate?

mp
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 1:08 am

call2arms wrote:It's time for a reality check, in case you want to see what a real dog fight looks like.
*graphic*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q46d_xw_vOY&feature=related

Try breaking that up with a basketball.

* I only put it here for the graphic images *



I don't break up fights with basketballs. You know what a REAL fight is? a fight between grizzly bears!!

like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGwUpM9QryU

try breaking that up with a break stick.
I can do it with mind tricks!

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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 2:14 am

Hello People.

Just to prove I didn't just come on here to promote my own videos, here is a video from a "pitbull expert" about how to break up a dog fight.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MshyMYyRzpE

And the laughability of it, and the fact that you could get so ripped apart doing this, I don't even want to get into it. But it's solutions like this "go get another person, go get some tools, grab the back legs and drag away...) you can obviously see how, with this method, both the dog being pulled by the legs, and the other dog can easily whip around and attack the guy breaking up the fight. Also, if you drag ONE dog by the leg, the other dog is going to MAUL the one you are dragging.

It's videos like these, and methods like these, which are the whole reason I decided to make a video on how to break up a dog fight.

Waitaminnit, I didn't DECIDE to make such a video. A fight happened, and then I made a video.

Thank you,

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reporting live...
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Postby iluvk9 » October 29th, 2009, 6:14 am

THIS forum is made up of owners of all breeds of dogs, even though the majority are Pit Bull owners. Many ARE trainers, many ARE experts in different areas of dogs. Many even have had serious dog fights and have passed their knowledge from it, on to the rest of us.

Maybe it's just your "writing tone" but you sound so condescending... :rolleyes2:



This is Joyce...
Reporting again,
IMO, your video in no way helps anyone.
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Postby Pit♥bull » October 29th, 2009, 6:53 am

dogtvcom wrote:Just to prove I didn't just come on here to promote my own videos
You couldn't prove it by me. :rolleyes2:
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 29th, 2009, 7:14 am

I don't know why you keep saying that was a "dog fight" or that Kwame is aggressive. It wasn't and he's not. It was a snark, and he's just a rude dog. :|

dogtvcom wrote:Just to prove I didn't just come on here to promote my own videos, here is a video from a "pitbull expert" about how to break up a dog fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MshyMYyRzpE


Who the hell is this idiot and why do you think he's a "pit bull (notice - 2 words) expert"? That's a dumb way to break up a fight as well - that poor dog should've bitten him as he was being dragged around by his back legs.

Tell me again what makes you an expert? Other than living with dogs for 14 years, what makes you an expert? I've lived with cats for nearly 30 years but don't proclaim myself an expert. I've lived with my pit bull for almost 4 years and I'm nowhere near an expert. However, I've done a crapload of reading about the breed, dogs in general, canine body language, training, spent thousands of dollars on training for my dog, and listen to anybody who is willing to talk to me about the breed/training (that I respect). I know a great deal more than most other people about dogs (not on this board, just in general). Everybody at my job knows to come to me if they need help with a dog problem. Yet I still feel like an idiot when I get the opportunity to visit with Michelle or Demo or Erin and talk to them and learn from them.

That being said, just open your mind to the possibility that maybe you're not the "be all end all" of dog trainers. Everybody always has something more to learn, right?
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Postby TinaMartin » October 29th, 2009, 9:52 am

Quite frankly not to be rude but I would not call you an expert of anything dog from what I have seen. That wasnt even close to a dog fight. I see a bully of a dog picking on a puppy. If I were you I would listen to what you have been told on this board. I dont think of myself as an idiot when it comes to dogs and when people on this board like Michelle, Demo, and Erin give advice I listen. They KNOW what they are talking about. In comparison to them I would call myself a rank beginner. I can clearly read what your dogs are telling you and each other. I would work on reading your dogs body language. If anything you do a great job of creating a total state of confusion.
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 11:04 am

iluvk9 wrote:THIS forum is made up of owners of all breeds of dogs, even though the majority are Pit Bull owners. Many ARE trainers, many ARE experts in different areas of dogs. Many even have had serious dog fights and have passed their knowledge from it, on to the rest of us.

Maybe it's just your "writing tone" but you sound so condescending... :rolleyes2:



This is Joyce...
Reporting again,
IMO, your video in no way helps anyone.


I'm trying to get help from Demo Dick on learning to crate and rotate. And then I'm going to get help from Michelle on having a Come to Jesus Meeting after which I fling my dog in a crate after I do things I'm not proud of. I'm trying to learn, I'm just waiting for people to help me instead of constantly attacking me. :dance:

mp
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 11:12 am

TinaMartin wrote:Quite frankly not to be rude but I would not call you an expert of anything dog from what I have seen. That wasnt even close to a dog fight. I see a bully of a dog picking on a puppy. If I were you I would listen to what you have been told on this board. I dont think of myself as an idiot when it comes to dogs and when people on this board like Michelle, Demo, and Erin give advice I listen. They KNOW what they are talking about. In comparison to them I would call myself a rank beginner. I can clearly read what your dogs are telling you and each other. I would work on reading your dogs body language. If anything you do a great job of creating a total state of confusion.



You are rude as are most of the people who are talking to me right now. No biggie though.


mp
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 11:18 am

pitbullmamaliz wrote:I don't know why you keep saying that was a "dog fight" or that Kwame is aggressive. It wasn't and he's not. It was a snark, and he's just a rude dog. :|

dogtvcom wrote:Just to prove I didn't just come on here to promote my own videos, here is a video from a "pitbull expert" about how to break up a dog fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MshyMYyRzpE


Who the hell is this idiot and why do you think he's a "pit bull (notice - 2 words) expert"? That's a dumb way to break up a fight as well - that poor dog should've bitten him as he was being dragged around by his back legs.

Tell me again what makes you an expert? Other than living with dogs for 14 years, what makes you an expert? I've lived with cats for nearly 30 years but don't proclaim myself an expert. I've lived with my pit bull for almost 4 years and I'm nowhere near an expert. However, I've done a crapload of reading about the breed, dogs in general, canine body language, training, spent thousands of dollars on training for my dog, and listen to anybody who is willing to talk to me about the breed/training (that I respect). I know a great deal more than most other people about dogs (not on this board, just in general). Everybody at my job knows to come to me if they need help with a dog problem. Yet I still feel like an idiot when I get the opportunity to visit with Michelle or Demo or Erin and talk to them and learn from them.

That being said, just open your mind to the possibility that maybe you're not the "be all end all" of dog trainers. Everybody always has something more to learn, right?



So if you don't like my video, and you don't like this "Miami Dog Training" expert's video, please point us in the direction of something that can help us all? This constant criticism with no alternative solution isn't really helping people.

Thank you for being cooperative :wave2:

mp
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 11:20 am

dogtvcom wrote:




I'm trying to get help from Demo Dick on learning to crate and rotate. And then I'm going to get help from Michelle on having a Come to Jesus Meeting after which I fling my dog in a crate after I do things I'm not proud of. I'm trying to learn, I'm just waiting for people to help me instead of constantly attacking me. :dance:

mp


Do you just want to keep egging things on with these remarks or do you really want help???
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Postby fenella » October 29th, 2009, 11:27 am

dogtvcom wrote:No, actually, I'm quite proud of it. It amused me and amusement is important in this world of increasingly no fun.


What???? You were amused by seeing video of your dogs "fighting"?



Here's the thing about 97% of "dog experts." They are stone cold stiff and boring. I was watching a chew toy video review by this "Adam Katz" guy the other day and he rambles on like a drone for minutes talking about chew toys and shows a dog for about 20 seconds in the video.

And then I look at my recent chew toy videos. Now this is how to do a chew toy review video!


What does that have to do with dog fights? It seems to me that you can't get anyone to watch your videos, so you come onto message boards for self-promotion.

But in that video, besides the chew toy being ripped apart eventually, is the relationship now, 5-6 months later between Jackie and Kwame. And it's great.


I'm sorry. You haven't "cured" your dog of being DA. You really can't do that. You can manage them, you can work with them, but you can never really trust them together unsupervised...especially since you have stated that Kwame has a long history of aggression. Even though this didn't really look like a fight to me, I agree with other posters that you set the poor puppy up. Not to say that you purposely had it attacked, but that you were dumb enough to allow it to happen in the first place.

Yes, there have been a couple more tifs, but by NOT AVOIDING THE ISSUE, it helps me find out what the issue is. It helps me crystalize the causes of aggression.

Again...huh? What exactly is the issue? How do you get to an issue by purposely pushing a dog past its threshold? How is being attacked good for the dog on the receiving end? You basically admit here that you want such fights to happen. That makes me :puke:

By not being afraid of dog fights, I can let them happen and figure out why and then know what to worry about and what not to worry about and not have to walk around on egg shells all the time.... I know you all think (well, he doesn't know anything about pitbulls) I know dogs. and pitbulls are dogs.

Again, I fail to see how this is helpful at all. If you can't figure out ahead of time what is going to set your dog off without having it fight, then that is YOUR problem. Don't put dogs in a dangerous situation for your own ego trip. Even if you think you are so perfect that you can always intervene before someone gets physically hurt, what good is it doing the dogs to be able to display aggressive behavior or be on the receiving end of snarling and snapping? :| :bs:

Kwame Brown is a great, great dog. But he's a dog. A dog is essentially a wild animal that lives in our houses. That's what most people who have problems with dogs fail to understand as a baseline idea.

THEY ARE DOMESTICATED. Dogs are not the same as wolves. Yes, they have some natural instincts, etc. If you really had a wild dog on your hands, you wouldn't have a face anymore.

Some of you may look at that dog and think there's something wrong with him. I don't. I simply figure out how to adapt that wild animal into living into a human household. That's really what dog training is. Some are more wild than others and he definitely is. No problem. He's also an AWESOME watchdog.
But he's not randomly vicious.

I can't even...begin...

There are certain things and situations that set him off, and this video helped crystalize one thing for me. He hates to see another dog being rewarded for training. He loves to learn things and be trained himself and when he sees another dog being trained, especially with a rawhide stick (which is what I was using in that video) he goes berserk and attacks. The other thing is of course meat.

Are you a F***ing moron? You need to let dogs attack one another to figure out that one dog is going to get jealous of another dog with a bone or meat and attention? Especially one that has shown aggression previously? What you are practicing is animal cruelty.

Well, you might think Okay, let's avoid training Jackie Brown in front of Kwame Brown. Let's keep them separated! Let's not let them in the yard together!

Of Course Not!
You do exactly that thing that makes him go berserk and you get it under control, but you develop a plan first and and you acclimatize him slowly to the idea that the world doesn't revolve totally around him at all times.

But that's not important right now.

Isn't that your entire hypothesis and reason for posting?

What's important is this. I knew that the reaction to my video would be primarily negative, (only read a few so far) and I also figured there would be a few people who secretly loved it but would be afraid to say so.

Loved what? A puppy being exposed to an aggressive dog in a situation where the dog has shown aggression in the past, followed by a snarling spat, and you trying to pull the dog off? What is someone supposed to love about that? I know that no one here has trouble speaking their mind, controversial or not. You are delusional.

As stated that wasn't a "how to" video for you all to follow and emulate. It's a video from someone who has a lot of experience breaking up dog fights between 70-100 lb dogs, and who has learned how to do it without getting himself or the dogs injured.

If you have gotten to the point where you've had the experience of breaking up lots of dog fights, the only thing it indicates is that you have no idea what you are doing and no understanding of how to manage dogs. I mean, how is it that you happen to find yourself in that situation so often? :doh:
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Postby Pit♥bull » October 29th, 2009, 11:28 am

dogtvcom wrote: I'm just waiting for people to help me instead of constantly attacking me.
What a line of bullshit... Seems you've had your domain since '98 and I suspect all you are doing is spamming boards with your signature for higher Google ratings.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 29th, 2009, 11:36 am

Michael...what do you consider requirements for being an "expert''? I'm quite curious...as Demo said, the term doesn't quite mean what it used to mean.

The people I consider "experts" in their field have numerous years training not only dogs, but other types of animals...and the ones that I consider experts usually don't consider themselves as such. I was recently at a Kathy Sdao seminar (we all paid to listen to her talk...I consider her an "expert"...she's got many years of working with marine mammals, dogs, and other animals). She mentioned numerous times that she doesn't know everything, and mentioned that she has to ask researchers/scientists about stuff all of the time. She did not spend the entire time tooting her own horn, and when she was puzzled by something the participants mentioned, she told us that she was puzzled and wasn't sure...but told us what she thought was the likely reason.

She's got the credentials to back up calling herself an expert...that works for me.

What do you consider your credentials? I haven't seen anything about your training, schooling, experience so far. I don't normally question people's cred, but the fact that you're proclaiming yourself an expert makes me want to know more.

Though I don't really expect you to respond to this...you've been ignoring my posts to spar with Demo instead. :dance:
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Postby TinaMartin » October 29th, 2009, 11:38 am

dogtvcom wrote:
TinaMartin wrote:Quite frankly not to be rude but I would not call you an expert of anything dog from what I have seen. That wasnt even close to a dog fight. I see a bully of a dog picking on a puppy. If I were you I would listen to what you have been told on this board. I dont think of myself as an idiot when it comes to dogs and when people on this board like Michelle, Demo, and Erin give advice I listen. They KNOW what they are talking about. In comparison to them I would call myself a rank beginner. I can clearly read what your dogs are telling you and each other. I would work on reading your dogs body language. If anything you do a great job of creating a total state of confusion.



You are rude as are most of the people who are talking to me right now. No biggie though.


mp

Actually I was rather polite. If I was rude it would have been much worse. Sorry the only flowers I like are in my garden or from my boyfriend. Crate and rotate is what it says you crate and rotate the dogs that are in conflict. One dog is out at a time. While one dog is out the other is in its crate. I am not even going to touch on your comment about the come to Jesus moment as Michelle would want to wash my mouth out with soap.
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 11:58 am

fenella wrote:
dogtvcom wrote:No, actually, I'm quite proud of it. It amused me and amusement is important in this world of increasingly no fun.


What???? You were amused by seeing video of your dogs "fighting"?



Here's the thing about 97% of "dog experts." They are stone cold stiff and boring. I was watching a chew toy video review by this "Adam Katz" guy the other day and he rambles on like a drone for minutes talking about chew toys and shows a dog for about 20 seconds in the video.

And then I look at my recent chew toy videos. Now this is how to do a chew toy review video!


What does that have to do with dog fights? It seems to me that you can't get anyone to watch your videos, so you come onto message boards for self-promotion.

But in that video, besides the chew toy being ripped apart eventually, is the relationship now, 5-6 months later between Jackie and Kwame. And it's great.


I'm sorry. You haven't "cured" your dog of being DA. You really can't do that. You can manage them, you can work with them, but you can never really trust them together unsupervised...especially since you have stated that Kwame has a long history of aggression. Even though this didn't really look like a fight to me, I agree with other posters that you set the poor puppy up. Not to say that you purposely had it attacked, but that you were dumb enough to allow it to happen in the first place.

Yes, there have been a couple more tifs, but by NOT AVOIDING THE ISSUE, it helps me find out what the issue is. It helps me crystalize the causes of aggression.

Again...huh? What exactly is the issue? How do you get to an issue by purposely pushing a dog past its threshold? How is being attacked good for the dog on the receiving end? You basically admit here that you want such fights to happen. That makes me :puke:

By not being afraid of dog fights, I can let them happen and figure out why and then know what to worry about and what not to worry about and not have to walk around on egg shells all the time.... I know you all think (well, he doesn't know anything about pitbulls) I know dogs. and pitbulls are dogs.

Again, I fail to see how this is helpful at all. If you can't figure out ahead of time what is going to set your dog off without having it fight, then that is YOUR problem. Don't put dogs in a dangerous situation for your own ego trip. Even if you think you are so perfect that you can always intervene before someone gets physically hurt, what good is it doing the dogs to be able to display aggressive behavior or be on the receiving end of snarling and snapping? :| :bs:

Kwame Brown is a great, great dog. But he's a dog. A dog is essentially a wild animal that lives in our houses. That's what most people who have problems with dogs fail to understand as a baseline idea.

THEY ARE DOMESTICATED. Dogs are not the same as wolves. Yes, they have some natural instincts, etc. If you really had a wild dog on your hands, you wouldn't have a face anymore.

Some of you may look at that dog and think there's something wrong with him. I don't. I simply figure out how to adapt that wild animal into living into a human household. That's really what dog training is. Some are more wild than others and he definitely is. No problem. He's also an AWESOME watchdog.
But he's not randomly vicious.

I can't even...begin...

There are certain things and situations that set him off, and this video helped crystalize one thing for me. He hates to see another dog being rewarded for training. He loves to learn things and be trained himself and when he sees another dog being trained, especially with a rawhide stick (which is what I was using in that video) he goes berserk and attacks. The other thing is of course meat.

Are you a F***ing moron? You need to let dogs attack one another to figure out that one dog is going to get jealous of another dog with a bone or meat and attention? Especially one that has shown aggression previously? What you are practicing is animal cruelty.

Well, you might think Okay, let's avoid training Jackie Brown in front of Kwame Brown. Let's keep them separated! Let's not let them in the yard together!

Of Course Not!
You do exactly that thing that makes him go berserk and you get it under control, but you develop a plan first and and you acclimatize him slowly to the idea that the world doesn't revolve totally around him at all times.

But that's not important right now.

Isn't that your entire hypothesis and reason for posting?

What's important is this. I knew that the reaction to my video would be primarily negative, (only read a few so far) and I also figured there would be a few people who secretly loved it but would be afraid to say so.

Loved what? A puppy being exposed to an aggressive dog in a situation where the dog has shown aggression in the past, followed by a snarling spat, and you trying to pull the dog off? What is someone supposed to love about that? I know that no one here has trouble speaking their mind, controversial or not. You are delusional.

As stated that wasn't a "how to" video for you all to follow and emulate. It's a video from someone who has a lot of experience breaking up dog fights between 70-100 lb dogs, and who has learned how to do it without getting himself or the dogs injured.

If you have gotten to the point where you've had the experience of breaking up lots of dog fights, the only thing it indicates is that you have no idea what you are doing and no understanding of how to manage dogs. I mean, how is it that you happen to find yourself in that situation so often? :doh:



Hello Fenella,

I was amused by my own video. Yes. That doesn't mean you have to be amused. I was more amused by my commentary than anything else.

As for the aggression, don't worry. The top guns here have already assured me and everyone else that this is not "real" aggression, only rudeness and snarkiness so there is nothing to worry about. Everybody calm down and relax! :wink:

mp
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Postby Michael » October 29th, 2009, 12:26 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Michael...what do you consider requirements for being an "expert''? I'm quite curious...as Demo said, the term doesn't quite mean what it used to mean.

The people I consider "experts" in their field have numerous years training not only dogs, but other types of animals...and the ones that I consider experts usually don't consider themselves as such. I was recently at a Kathy Sdao seminar (we all paid to listen to her talk...I consider her an "expert"...she's got many years of working with marine mammals, dogs, and other animals). She mentioned numerous times that she doesn't know everything, and mentioned that she has to ask researchers/scientists about stuff all of the time. She did not spend the entire time tooting her own horn, and when she was puzzled by something the participants mentioned, she told us that she was puzzled and wasn't sure...but told us what she thought was the likely reason.

She's got the credentials to back up calling herself an expert...that works for me.

What do you consider your credentials? I haven't seen anything about your training, schooling, experience so far. I don't normally question people's cred, but the fact that you're proclaiming yourself an expert makes me want to know more.

Though I don't really expect you to respond to this...you've been ignoring my posts to spar with Demo instead. :dance:


Hello Erin,

:GoMods:

You seem like one of the more level headed and reasonable people here.

I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.

So you be Erin and I'll be Michael and Michelle can be Michelle, and you can fondle any boobies or guns you want. Let's all have fun here :mrgreen:

mp
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Postby TinaMartin » October 29th, 2009, 12:58 pm

Dude do us all a favor and grow up!
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 29th, 2009, 1:14 pm

dogtvcom wrote:I can figure people out without having to be read their resume. I think you can do the same. I judge people on their words and actions, and their thinking, not their resumes.


Alright, so you have no training or any other credentials then. Would have been easier to say that from the beginning. Though I guess it's tough to be the dog expert when people know you're just bs'ing them.

And just for the record, Erin isn't a mod here. Those of us with red names are staff members. But yes, Erin is extremely level-headed.
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