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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 28th, 2009, 4:56 pm

Missy, it's tough to describe a CTJ meeting. They're different for each dog. Generally it involves breaking out the Voice Of God and putting the fear of God into the dog. They aren't pretty, but they can be effective.
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Postby Marinepits » October 28th, 2009, 5:23 pm

mnp13 wrote:What your dog understands as a "if you ever do that again you will meet your maker" moment is between you and your dog.


Very true. With Indy, it's a hard look and an "Oy!" from me. With Tucker, all I have to do is *think* that he's nearing the CTJ moment and he starts polishing his halo. Shorty, Katy (in her younger days), and Mac need a much more serious CTJ, which has varied in each situation. Mac literally almost met his maker the day he jumped Indy and just might have if Steven didn't drag him into another room. :neutral:
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Postby madremissy » October 28th, 2009, 5:26 pm

What your dog understands as a "if you ever do that again you will meet your maker" moment is between you and your dog. We make light of it because it's a rather uncomfortable topic when you really get down to it. So let's just leave it there, k? I'm not trying to preach or be rude, Missy, I'm really not, just trying to explain. :)


I gotcha! :D

I guess I worded my question wrong. I just don't want to do anything to mess her up in the head anymore than she already is. You know what I mean. Last night she sorda jumped at Sammy because he was licking the leftover peanut butter off of a blanket that she had her kong on way earlier. She got froggy and I grabbed her by the collar and had a little "discussion" I didn't yell I just politely told her NO MAM!! And she wasn't to do that.

Dan+Bec13 wrote:You know we get this type of behavior with Maddie once and awhile like you're having with Kinzyl. Maybe instead of focusing on Gotty intigrating into the pack you need to focus on Kinzyl allowing Gotty to integrate into the pack. Kinzyl might be seeing that outside doesn't belong to him, but inside is all mine. Maybe leash him and keep him on your hip around the house for a day or two so when he does try to get snippy you can correct him quick. If you know where he is and he can't roam you won't have to worry about a problem. It's what we've done with Maddie before to let her know that the new dog isn't a threat and is OK to be part of the pack.


I think Kinzyl is the problem child. Ok you say leash Gotty to me or leash Kinzyl to me.

Another thing. When ya'll say correct them quick it seems like I am not seeing what needs to be corrected in time before one gets snarky. They will be fine then bam. I am not catching the body language in time. Maybe that is my problem. Jenifer recommended a book and I am going to go to town or just order it over the internet.

Sorry for so many questions and having a hard time understanding but I want to make this work. :oops: I really do.
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Postby DemoDick » October 28th, 2009, 6:19 pm

Lots of good advice here, but it can get overwhelming. For simplicity's sake...
If I were you I would do the following:

1. Separate the dogs for now.
2. Start marker training each of them.
3. Implement NILIF or Mind Games.
4. Avoid situations that are going to result in you giving a correction. When and how a proper correction is delivered is a skill that must be learned first-hand.

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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 28th, 2009, 7:47 pm

Dan+Bec13 wrote:You know we get this type of behavior with Maddie once and awhile like you're having with Kinzyl. Maybe instead of focusing on Gotty intigrating into the pack you need to focus on Kinzyl allowing Gotty to integrate into the pack. Kinzyl might be seeing that outside doesn't belong to him, but inside is all mine. Maybe leash him and keep him on your hip around the house for a day or two so when he does try to get snippy you can correct him quick. If you know where he is and he can't roam you won't have to worry about a problem. It's what we've done with Maddie before to let her know that the new dog isn't a threat and is OK to be part of the pack.


I think Kinzyl is the problem child. Ok you say leash Gotty to me or leash Kinzyl to me.

Another thing. When ya'll say correct them quick it seems like I am not seeing what needs to be corrected in time before one gets snarky. They will be fine then bam. I am not catching the body language in time. Maybe that is my problem. Jenifer recommended a book and I am going to go to town or just order it over the internet.

Sorry for so many questions and having a hard time understanding but I want to make this work. :oops: I really do.


Sorry for the confusion. I would leash Kinzyl. Like you said that dog seems to be the "problem child". Maddie can be the same way. You will be more adept to watching for the body langue like a fixated stare or a dropped forward leaning head (these are two non-verbals Maddie displays) when the dog is leashed to you going around the house where you do. If you hear a growl or any vocal warning Kinzyl will be right there to correct as well. Again this is what has worked at my house during all our fosters. Good luck with the pups.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 29th, 2009, 12:00 am

DemoDick wrote:Lots of good advice here, but it can get overwhelming. For simplicity's sake...
If I were you I would do the following:

1. Separate the dogs for now.
2. Start marker training each of them.
3. Implement NILIF or Mind Games.
4. Avoid situations that are going to result in you giving a correction. When and how a proper correction is delivered is a skill that must be learned first-hand.

Demo Dick


yup, yup and yup!

You really don't want to go down the road of issuing corrections for snarkiness...because if you time it wrong, you'll end up repressing the wrong thing. :nono: Set them up to succeed...so if that means keeping them separated now, that's what you need to do.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 9:54 am

DemoDick wrote:Lots of good advice here, but it can get overwhelming. For simplicity's sake...
If I were you I would do the following:

1. Separate the dogs for now.
2. Start marker training each of them.
3. Implement NILIF or Mind Games.
4. Avoid situations that are going to result in you giving a correction. When and how a proper correction is delivered is a skill that must be learned first-hand.

Demo Dick


This is my plan for now. Thanks everyone so much for their help. I hope this thread will help others the same way it has helped me.

Keep fingers crossed but I think I have someone coming to help me with some clicker training and body language. :D I will reveal who when it is definite. Just wanted you to know that I am reaching out to get as much help for ME as possible. Because I know that I am part of my problem right now.
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 10:57 am

Update: Help is on the the way!!!!! Sarah (Hundilein) is coming next Wednesday. I am very grateful that she will be here. I can't wait to meet her and hopefully learn a few things. Still going to go slow. Clicker training and body language is on the agenda.

I am so excited. I can't wait. THANK YOU SARAH!!!!
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 29th, 2009, 11:39 am

madremissy wrote:Update: Help is on the the way!!!!! Sarah (Hundilein) is coming next Wednesday. I am very grateful that she will be here. I can't wait to meet her and hopefully learn a few things. Still going to go slow. Clicker training and body language is on the agenda.

I am so excited. I can't wait. THANK YOU SARAH!!!!


:clap:

You're gonna have fun! I'm jealous!
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"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby Marinepits » October 29th, 2009, 12:00 pm

:woowoo: Video everything and show us what happens!
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Postby Hundilein » October 29th, 2009, 1:04 pm

Wednesday cannot get here fast enough!

I will try to remember to charge my camera and take it along.
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 1:15 pm

Hundilein wrote:Wednesday cannot get here fast enough!

I will try to remember to charge my camera and take it along.


I know that is right!!!

Don't worry people I am going to feed her but Travis will be doing the cooking. :wink:
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Postby airwalk » October 29th, 2009, 4:16 pm

Yay, you know sometimes we know all the right things...but knowing and having someone show us how is often the key to getting over the hump. Missy you will be fine and so will all three dogs, including Little Miss Thing.
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 29th, 2009, 4:19 pm

GOOD LUCK!!!!!
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Postby iluvk9 » October 29th, 2009, 4:25 pm

madremissy wrote:Update: Help is on the the way!!!!! Sarah (Hundilein) is coming next Wednesday.


That is WONDERFUL!!! :rock:

(Sarah...don't eat anything unless you are sure Travis made it. Missy and I went to the same cooking school.)
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Postby mnp13 » October 29th, 2009, 4:30 pm

GREAT!!!!!
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Postby Hundilein » October 29th, 2009, 4:42 pm

iluvk9 wrote:
madremissy wrote:Update: Help is on the the way!!!!! Sarah (Hundilein) is coming next Wednesday.


That is WONDERFUL!!! :rock:

(Sarah...don't eat anything unless you are sure Travis made it. Missy and I went to the same cooking school.)


Thanks for the tip. I will make sure to keep that in mind.
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 4:49 pm

I have already informed Travis that he is in charge of cooking that evening. I will have boiled shrimp chilled and ready when she gets here for lunch. I can boil water unlike someone else I know. :wink:
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Postby madremissy » October 29th, 2009, 9:55 pm

No matter how big and tough a problem may be, get rid of confusion by taking one little step towards solution. Do something. Then try again. At the worst, so long as you don't do it the same way twice, you will eventually use up all the wrong ways of doing it and thus the next try will be the right one. ~George F. Nordenhold

I mentioned to someone that I was confused and they sent me this. Thought is was appropriate. :)
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Postby airwalk » October 30th, 2009, 1:48 pm

I like that Missy...hey we have a video here at the shelter called the how of bow wow. I haven't seen the whole thing just its and bits...but there have been a couple of segments that have caught my eye and I'm going to take it home so I can really watch it.

Maybe Erin has seen it and can comment further, but the pieces I've seen I liked. Sometime I find if I can see it and watch it a couple of times I can get it.
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