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Postby madremissy » October 26th, 2009, 9:57 pm

Please don't misunderstand, I do not think that Collarmania collars are not high quality. Quite the opposite! I think they are well made, and I like them, however, I am not a big fan of slide-only collars for dogs that are pullers unless they have secondary fasteners in addition to the slide. Personal preference.


Can you elaborate for me. I thought the collars where best for them because they couldn't get these off and there was no chance of the buckle coming loose or breaking. Do the collars (slide only) make them pull more for some reason. What and why is that?

Gotty is not pulling like he was so that is getting better. Today he walked along side of me no problem. :dance:
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 26th, 2009, 11:30 pm

That's about it. Missy is starting to enter unfamiliar territory with the dogs and will have to tighten up obedience and house routines for a while. It's hard to get things ship-shape with two dogs and not the third and at some point you "forget" which one you are dealing with and have the wrong expectation.

Erin, I understand what you are saying about your dogs, but like Demo said, it's second nature for you. When we first put our three together in this house it took some adjustment time - and things were strict for all of them, yes, even Ruby. After two years it's second nature, and even when there is an extra dog or two in the house we can handle our dogs as usual and handle the extra(s) differently. But at the beginning it's not the same.


Gotcha...see your points (Demo I'm including your post too...just not quoting it right now...). ;)

I was just worrying that adding in the extra work of training Sammy might overwhelm Missy at the moment...if anything, I'd be okay with letting his training slide a bit more now, and work on Gotty and Kinzyl. Balancing the training and finding the time for everyone is harder, as you add more dogs. If training is "work", as it is until it becomes second nature...then it might be easier to just concentrate on one or two at for the time being. :D

As for barking...same thing goes, depends on how much time and energy you want to put into the training *right now*. I've significantly decreased Inara's alert/alarm barking...she sat quietly while the UPS guy delivered a package last week...(AMAZING!) But it's gonna take some time to learn the methods behind it...(click/treat, LAT game, etc). A citronella collar works for most dogs...Sawyer wears one from time to time...he can get crazy when I leave the house some days. It's a quick fix...and is a management tool to deal with the behavior until you want/can get around to training.
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 12:00 am

Sorry for the double post but I wanted to address Erin seperately.

TheRedQueen wrote: Gotcha...see your points (Demo I'm including your post too...just not quoting it right now...). ;)

I was just worrying that adding in the extra work of training Sammy might overwhelm Missy at the moment...if anything, I'd be okay with letting his training slide a bit more now, and work on Gotty and Kinzyl. Balancing the training and finding the time for everyone is harder, as you add more dogs. If training is "work", as it is until it becomes second nature...then it might be easier to just concentrate on one or two at for the time being. :D

As for barking...same thing goes, depends on how much time and energy you want to put into the training *right now*. I've significantly decreased Inara's alert/alarm barking...she sat quietly while the UPS guy delivered a package last week...(AMAZING!) But it's gonna take some time to learn the methods behind it...(click/treat, LAT game, etc). A citronella collar works for most dogs...Sawyer wears one from time to time...he can get crazy when I leave the house some days. It's a quick fix...and is a management tool to deal with the behavior until you want/can get around to training.


I think I am going to concentrate on Kinzyl and Gotty right now. I can manage Sammy very easily now. I understand the difference between what Michelle and Erin are saying now. :doh: I will, however, put him in the mix of daily training. Even if it is just a little at a time. He can't think he is too good to not have some structured time. :wink: Thank you both for explaining that.
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Postby Malli » October 27th, 2009, 2:35 am

seriously, this is Missy's thread, take it somewhere else guys!
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Postby hugapitbull » October 27th, 2009, 7:06 am

madremissy wrote:I think I am going to concentrate on Kinzyl and Gotty right now. I can manage Sammy very easily now. I understand the difference between what Michelle and Erin are saying now. :doh: I will, however, put him in the mix of daily training. Even if it is just a little at a time. He can't think he is too good to not have some structured time. :wink: Thank you both for explaining that.


Missy, you know I'm not the trainer kinda person, but I'd like to throw this into the equation. I have discovered when I am working with Duke on commands, Trouble will mimic what Duke does to get a treat. If he sits, she sits. If he does a down, she does a down. If he speaks, she speaks. If Sammy is the least bit food driven, he may do the same thing and in effect train himself while you work with the other two. Trouble has had some prior training, that may make a difference. I believe you said Sammy has none.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 27th, 2009, 8:00 am

Alright boys and girls, let's keep this thread devoted to helping Missy integrate Gotty peacefully into her household with the least bit of drama for all dogs/people involved.

We have plenty of current discussions on crate/rotate versus pack situations - do a search, find them, and bump them up. But keep those discussions out of this thread. Please and thank you.
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Postby Marinepits » October 27th, 2009, 9:13 am

hugapitbull wrote:I have discovered when I am working with Duke on commands, Trouble will mimic what Duke does to get a treat. If he sits, she sits. If he does a down, she does a down. If he speaks, she speaks. If Sammy is the least bit food driven, he may do the same thing and in effect train himself while you work with the other two. Trouble has had some prior training, that may make a difference. I believe you said Sammy has none.


This method has worked very well for us.

Indy copied (and sometimes still does) all of Katy's obedience and behaviours when he was young.

Shorty came to us a bit older and with some good obedience. She taught Mac and is still teaching Tucker. Since Shorty and Tucker are velcroed to each other, any time Tucker is unsure about a situation or can't figure out what we want from him, he automatically looks to Shorty. Lately, he's been doing that less often and it's nice to see him gaining his own confidence.
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 10:50 am

hugapitbull wrote: Missy, you know I'm not the trainer kinda person, but I'd like to throw this into the equation. I have discovered when I am working with Duke on commands, Trouble will mimic what Duke does to get a treat. If he sits, she sits. If he does a down, she does a down. If he speaks, she speaks. If Sammy is the least bit food driven, he may do the same thing and in effect train himself while you work with the other two. Trouble has had some prior training, that may make a difference. I believe you said Sammy has none.



Well, this is my problem that I think I need help on to. Gotty gets so "possesive" over the food. So after the last time of feeding them a treat while they were sitting next to one another and he got snarky I haven't done that again. I am working on them doing commands next to one another without treats. Any ideas on this would be great.

What if I try to have them seperated a little. Like about 5 feet apart and work on getting them closer as I treat them for commands. Does that make sense?

As for Sammy. He won't follow anybody. I think he is his own man. :crazy2: When I do his training I have had Kinzyl right there so he could see what she does. He gets so excited over the food he will down but his butt is still wiggling the whole time. It is like he is so excited over the treat he can't keep his body still. He gets his front end down and his paws are dancing. I have tried to not give it to him until he is still but it just seems to stimulate him more. Therefore, I still don't want to put him in the mix of the other two quite yet with treats.

I know that it will take time and this is going to be a day to day thing. The doggie shuffle is not as bad or as difficult as I thought so I am doing good on that for now. I don't think neither of them mind going to the bedroom and having a queen size bed to lounge around on and a picture window to look out of. Such torture I am putting them through. :wink:

Today should be interesting. It is raining outside so I will have to get creative with excercise time.

To Micheal (Dogtv.com) My dogs are not vicious. I don't want another new person reading this thread to misunderstand what is going on. Gotty has essentially been an only dog when he is inside a home setting. As in up in the apartment upstairs with his Mom and Dad. He was used to receiving treats with no other dog around. He is being bratty and I need the information to learn how to teach him he has to share and be patient when around Kinzyl and Sammy when receiving treats or in an area which he knows food is.

This board is for people to learn and gain knowledge if they are having a problem or have a question. So if you are a dog expert like you say you should know that every dog is different and every situation is different. If you want to help keep that in mind. Thank you. :D
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 11:34 am

I'm thinking they all need lessons on self-control/impulse control before adding treats into the mix with the whole gang. I'd separate them, train each individually with controlling themselves around food...(and/or anything else that they tend to guard, covet, etc). Then, maybe, just maybe, I'd have food around all of them. I don't rely on my dogs to teach each other anything...they're just now starting to study whether dogs learn by seeing others (and I'm not gonna open that topic now). I don't expect them to learn skills by watching the others...I teach each of them separately at first.

I'm thinking some Doggie Zen would be good for the whole gang...it's easy and fun. Check out Shirley Chong's Six Lessons (don't worry, it' really is easy and fun)...
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/lessons.html

Also...I like her "Mind Games"...similar to NILIF...but I like how it's all spelled out clearly and easy to read.
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/mindgames.html

For Sammy...here's Ian Dunbar's "Jazz Up and Settle Down"...how to teach your dog to "chill out"!
http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/ja ... ettle-down
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Postby DemoDick » October 27th, 2009, 11:47 am

What Erin said. Work one dog at a time, and I would go one step further and teach one skill (sit, down, etc.) at a time. This is as much for you as it is for the dogs.

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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 12:08 pm

Thanks Erin and Demo. Really good information from those links.

I am already doing some of those things but I will take one thing at a time with each dog, start over and do it daily.

With the clicker, I am going to have to make a trip to Alabama and see Sarah. :D I am just not getting the timing right on that. :nono: I have tried but my reflexes are not quick enough or I am doing something wrong.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 12:23 pm

madremissy wrote:With the clicker, I am going to have to make a trip to Alabama and see Sarah. :D I am just not getting the timing right on that. :nono: I have tried but my reflexes are not quick enough or I am doing something wrong.


Practice the clicker without the dogs...the clicker, just like all of dog training is about timing. Some people have better timing than others naturally, some people have to practice. :| You're not the first person to tell me this...trust me! lol The nice thing about the clicker is that it's forgiving...unlike a badly timed punishment/aversive...you can't do a lot of damage with a mis-timed click. :wink: First thing...don't stress about it!

I heard Kathy Sdao speak a few weeks ago, and she's been working with a Guide Dog school, teaching them to clicker train the Guide Dogs. She told us about a client working with her Guide Dog, clicker training it on her own...she wanted to find a trash can on her way to work. The client stopped every morning for a coffee, and drank it as she walked. She wanted to find a trash can, so she didn't have to bring her empty cup into work with her. So she clicker trained the dog to stop at a trash can. Kathy watched her work...the dog would stop her, she'd lean forward, feel for the object, figure out that it was the trash can, then she'd click and treat. That's a really mis-timed click/treat...but it worked...the dog and client had muddled through. lol So if this blind woman can mis-time her click/treat and get things accomplished...you can too! ;)

But getting back to it...practice without the dogs around. Watch TV at night, and decide to click for something you see in the show. It might be an actor saying a certain word (something that comes up during the show...like "court" if you're watching Law and Order), or a reality show contestant sitting down on a log (like on Survivor), click everytime a word gets bleeped on "Bridezillas", etc. If it doesn't happen enough...pick something else to click for...you can change your criteria while you're watching. Every time you click, reward yourself with a snack. Have a piece of popcorn when you click correctly. Kinda like a drinking game...but with a clicker. (hell, have a shot every time you click!) :dance:

That'll help your timing, while keeping it fun!
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 1:28 pm

Thanks Erin,

I will get out my clicker and try tonight. I am going to have to use some celery or carrots because this could take a while for me. I don't want to get fat. :wink:
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 27th, 2009, 1:32 pm

Good luck with Gotty. He looks so handsome. I read the thread and everything people has been saying is about all I would be able to offer for advice. All I can offer is some personal experience.

Recently we fostered a dog who was "not good with other dogs". We were told that she can't get along with other dogs, tries to fight them, any sign growl or sign of dominance from another dog would set her off, on and on it went. Well we got her to our place did the introduction in the yard everything went fine. Broght her into the house with Maddie, Maddie was drinking water, Mow (the new foster) went to get water, Maddie growled, Mow went nuts. Soooooooo we had a crate and rotate going for about 2 days. Steadily we allowed them to play in ten minute intervals to get used to eachother. Any sign it was going to get out of control play was stopped, we gave them the sit, and they got a treat for being able to settle down and sit. Eventually everything worked out. Maddie and Mow became great friends. They were able to share beds and couches. We just made sure that that "pack" order was known and watched for any signs. I hope it helps to ease your mind. I'm sure Gotty and your pups will be fine. Good luck with everything.

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Postby Marinepits » October 27th, 2009, 1:37 pm

When Katy first met Shorty, she wanted to kick Shorty's ass! :shock: Shorty is aggressive with other dogs, but with Katy she immediately backed down and Katy was okay after that. Now, the two girls are good friends and spend lots of time grooming each other.
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 1:47 pm

Thanks Dan+BC13,

That explains my situation very well. I know there is always hope. But I knows that the possibility of long term doggie shuffle is always there to. Thanks for the encouragement.

Another question. :D :D
Kinzyl's "spot" is either on the end of the couch or down on the floor on her pallet next to Travis's chair. She is usually made to go down there when other people are in the room besides Travis and myself. Should I get make Gotty a pallet. I can make it just off the Den. For now when he is out I am working on him to lay on that same pallett. He thinks the ottoman in front of the TV is more comfortable but that is too close to the end of the couch.
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Postby Jenn » October 27th, 2009, 4:52 pm

If that's her place, then I personally would get him his own "spot".
Then again, I prefer it for when I'm grumpy so everyone knows where they better go and stay. :wink:
Good luck hon, sounds like your really making an effort and I'm sure you'll all be better off after all your hard work pays off. :)
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Postby airwalk » October 27th, 2009, 5:22 pm

Wow, great stuff here for anyone trying to adjust a household or intro a new dog! Everyone should have to read this thread before adopting a shelter dog!
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 27th, 2009, 5:29 pm

madremissy wrote:Another question. :D :D
Kinzyl's "spot" is either on the end of the couch or down on the floor on her pallet next to Travis's chair. She is usually made to go down there when other people are in the room besides Travis and myself. Should I get make Gotty a pallet. I can make it just off the Den. For now when he is out I am working on him to lay on that same pallett. He thinks the ottoman in front of the TV is more comfortable but that is too close to the end of the couch.


Yes, I like to have a "go to your bed" cue...and if they have a certain spot...even better.

Fig has been learning this lately...we taught this in puppy class last week...I try and get them all to bring a bed/mat for their dog, so the dog has a "safe", comfy spot in class.

Here's an article and 2 videos to help out:

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/L ... ToMat.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwAmbObAXcY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGaslyGaGE&feature=fvw
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Postby madremissy » October 27th, 2009, 6:52 pm

Ok, let's back the bus up.....

First attempt at having them in the house together was a FAIL. :(

I don't know if it was my fault or what. I tried to see if having the front door open to the porch would be ok for them to come in and out.I was watching them the whole time. It worked for a little while but when Gotty was going past the door to go back to the bedroom Kinzyl was on the porch in front of the door. KINZYL jumped through the door way onto Gotty. It was like Gotty stopped looked at her she looked at him and then bam!!! So I have to now realize that it is Kinzyl who started this one. I broke it up easily enough but I could tell that the snarkiness is escalating. They go after each other's mouths. Not the neck or anything else just the mouths. Kinzyl has small puncture wound on the bottom of her chin which only bleed a little bit. I put pressure on it with a cloth and it is ok now. I also notice that I am having to pull Kinzyl off of him and Gotty is the one to stop first. I did say "Gotty Kennel" and he went straight to it. So maybe Kinzyl is more the one I need to focus on.

I also noticed that it kinda made Kinzyl withdraw a little backwards. Like she was before when she wasn't sure of herself. I feel like I took a few steps back with her.

Also, now she is jumping at her toys when Sammy walks by and she has not done that before. I corrected her by putting her in her spot, taking the kong away and putting it up.

I do know this is going to take time and I can't give up with one time but I DON'T want to undo all the progress or the relationship that Sammy and Kinzyl have.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I tried to write it like it happened.

Just a little disappointed in myself and the situation right now. :sad2:





Right now we are totally back to the doggie shuffle.
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