Teaching The Stand

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Postby maberi » October 14th, 2009, 8:53 am

Anyone have any good methods for teaching a stand without having the dog move forward or backward?

I taught Earl to stand by targeting my hand in front of him but he has always taken a step forward on his stands. I'm starting to teach Kayden this and would like a nice clean stand from a sit without any forward or backward motion.

I started teaching Kayden the stand by taking a step into him so he has to take a step back to stand. I figured I could clean this up later but was wondering if there were any other methods anyone else has used that work.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 14th, 2009, 8:59 am

I've been clicking the stand as they stand around me...so I'm not luring or targeting. Just capturing the stand when it happens spontaneously...not trying make it happen. That seems to get nicer stands. :|
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Postby maberi » October 14th, 2009, 9:01 am

Thanks Erin, I was thinking about that as an option last night as well. I've seen others also put the dogs up on a platform (crate, box, etc..) so the dog doesn't have a chance to move when standing
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 14th, 2009, 9:06 am

maberi wrote:Thanks Erin, I was thinking about that as an option last night as well. I've seen others also put the dogs up on a platform (crate, box, etc..) so the dog doesn't have a chance to move when standing


When I first started, it was always taught by getting the dog sitting, then making them move into a stand...and my stands I got were crappy, and had to be polished more later. The shaped stands are nicer from the get-go...and though I haven't done much with them...I wouldn't have to polish/proof too much.

I've got friends that are clicking their whippets to stack (for conformation) on a cool device that has raised platforms...one for each foot. I don't think it would be too hard to replicate...;) The dogs are happy to get on the platforms, because click/treats happen!

http://www.happylegs.com/
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Postby katiek0417 » October 14th, 2009, 9:39 am

Hi Matt,

I had actually tried to use some of the methods that Erin talked about it with Cy, but it didn't work with him. I would try to wait for him to offer the behavior to stand, but he's so "programmed" to sit when he's around me that he never offered it. So, then I used food to teach him from a sit, but he kept stepping forward or back... So, then I used the food to lure him to a stand out of the down, but I kinda stood to his side a bit....

Let me try to paint a picture: I would have Cy in a down. I would stand to his right but in such a way that his right shoulder was at the bottom of my right leg...and I had my right foot in front of his front feet....then I used the food in my right hand to bring his head forward, and I used my left foot near his back legs, but under him to prompt him....because my foot was in front of his feet, he didn't step forward, but he didn't step back either b/c my food was guiding him up...

I found that teaching him out of the down made for a much prettier stand because he learned to just stand up where his feet were (the same way he downed where his feet were) rather than trying to adjust his positioning...

When he could stand without any help from my left leg and without much luring from food, I then stepped in front of him....

I don't know...I just found that he figured out not to move his feet easier from the down than from the sit....

I HAVE been using Erin's method with my puppy, however, and it is working very well with him, but he doesn't know anything so I'm working with a clean slate (and not battling a "programmed" dog)....if that makes sense
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Postby maberi » October 14th, 2009, 9:45 am

Thanks Katrina

I think I understand what you are describing. I'll give it a shot with Kayden tonight and film it if it doesn't make sense once I start working with him so I can show you later.
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Postby katiek0417 » October 14th, 2009, 9:54 am

maberi wrote:Thanks Katrina

I think I understand what you are describing. I'll give it a shot with Kayden tonight and film it if it doesn't make sense once I start working with him so I can show you later.


lol sorry...I know my descriptions were weird!
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Postby maberi » October 14th, 2009, 9:57 am

Not at all

I'm a very visual learner and have trouble putting things together sometimes if I can't see it :doh:
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Postby katiek0417 » October 14th, 2009, 9:59 am

maberi wrote:Not at all

I'm a very visual learner and have trouble putting things together sometimes if I can't see it :doh:


:doh: Oops! If you want, I can have Greg snap a picture of me doing it with Cy....
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 14th, 2009, 10:16 am

Trying to find a video with capturing the stand...haven't found one yet. Did find this nice little video of Dr. Ian Dunbar teaching a puppy to stand...nice little luring the stand video. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcPnuCeHxfA
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 14th, 2009, 10:19 am

Aha! Found what I was looking for! (and it has a cute weiner!)

This is what I start with...clicking JUST for standing (still)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr15cZ1HIQg
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Postby Malli » October 14th, 2009, 1:45 pm

try it on a ledge or picnic table...
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Postby pocketpit » October 14th, 2009, 2:45 pm

I taught Eve the stand with a clicker which was different than how I've taught any previous dog. Before it was luring with a barrier (ie a box or on a platform) to prevent forward movement and then putting them on a tie out to reinforce that notion without having to use a platform.
I have to say that I prefer the clicker method since they grasp the concept much faster. I did a very tiny amount of capturing behavior. Mostly I just stood in front of my dog with the treat and clicker and stepped into her slightly to make her back away and clicked/treated as she stood. That progressed super quickly into just needing a subtle cue with my leg to help her and that was quickly phased out all together. Becuase me dog is super motivated by food, my presence in front of her kept her leaning into my space for a treat and thus she merely moved her back end to stand. Once she had the concept down I did do some work on a small, elevated spaces to help her further understand where her back end was and how to use it.
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Postby mnp13 » October 14th, 2009, 2:52 pm

I taught Riggs the stand using a leash under his belly out of a sit, but he did step forward when I did it.

When we started conformation, he started to hate being stacked and I figured out that if I downed him "squarely" then he would stand into an almost perfect stack without moving his feet.

I'll show you how I did it this weekend.

Does he target? Put your hand in front of him when he's in a down and tell him to stand, but put it where he'll have to stand up to touch your palm but not have room to step forward but if he steps back he won't be able to reach it.
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Postby maberi » October 14th, 2009, 2:58 pm

mnp13 wrote:I'll show you how I did it this weekend.


Ok, thanks

mnp13 wrote:Does he target? Put your hand in front of him when he's in a down and tell him to stand, but put it where he'll have to stand up to touch your palm but not have room to step forward but if he steps back he won't be able to reach it.


Yes

I used Katrina's suggestion of keeping my right foot in front of his front paws so he couldn't move forward and he came straight up. I had to nudge his back end a bit to get him to understand I didn't want a sit
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Postby katiek0417 » October 14th, 2009, 3:56 pm

maberi wrote:
mnp13 wrote:I'll show you how I did it this weekend.


Ok, thanks

mnp13 wrote:Does he target? Put your hand in front of him when he's in a down and tell him to stand, but put it where he'll have to stand up to touch your palm but not have room to step forward but if he steps back he won't be able to reach it.


Yes

I used Katrina's suggestion of keeping my right foot in front of his front paws so he couldn't move forward and he came straight up. I had to nudge his back end a bit to get him to understand I didn't want a sit


lol yeah, that's the same reason I used my left foot under Cy's belly a little...he tried to do the same!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 14th, 2009, 5:15 pm

Just out of curiosity, what is the "stand" command used for?
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Postby katiek0417 » October 14th, 2009, 5:26 pm

Dan+Bec13 wrote:Just out of curiosity, what is the "stand" command used for?


I use it at the vet and it's handy for that...but, honestly, I compete with my dogs, and they have to know the stand in the sport we compete in....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Axo - Psycho Puppy
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Postby Malli » October 14th, 2009, 5:34 pm

yeah mostly utility I think. It sometimes comes in handy at the vet, for grooming or just to get the dog to stand still to look at something on his body or to place a piece of equipment or bandage etc.
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Postby Dan+Bec13 » October 14th, 2009, 5:34 pm

Got ya thanks Katie. Matt when Maddie was in puppy class we taught her "stand" by first putting her in down. Then we would place a treat in front of her mouth while kneeling at the dogs side. With your other hand you would place it in between the back thigh and under belly. While saying "stand" you would take your arm and raise up the belly so the dog would stand, while giving the treat to the dog. Eventually you stop knealing by your dog and instead stand in front and say the command. I don't remember if Maddie would take a step either way, but when you have your arm underneath the belly it restricts the dog from movement. Hope this may help.
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