Prong Collar Question

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Postby Hundilein » September 20th, 2009, 10:13 pm

I don't want to start a debate about prong collars, but I have a question for those of you who use them. Is it common practice to turn all of the prongs so they are facing out because a dog yelps at a correction when the collar is put on normally (ie prongs turned in)?
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Postby mnp13 » September 20th, 2009, 10:44 pm

If you turn all of the prongs out then there is no reason to use the collar, just get a martingale. :|

The whole point of the prongs is that they pinch, and the pinches hurt... and sometimes the dogs yelp. That's kinda way it was designed. :wink:

In all seriousness, yes, I've seen people do that, just as I've seen people turn every other link outwards, or put little rubber tips on the prongs. All of the above makes me a little nutty. Do prong collars hurt? Yup, and that's the point. The other point is to give the most efficient correction possible so that you have to give the fewest number possible, and the lightest possible. If you make the corrections dull and nagging... that's all they are - dull and nagging; and you have to give 1,000 of them instead of one or two that are correctly timed and of correct level.
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Postby Hundilein » September 20th, 2009, 10:45 pm

mnp13 wrote:If you turn all of the prongs out then there is no reason to use the collar, just get a martingale. :|


That was my thought, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
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Postby TheRedQueen » September 20th, 2009, 10:47 pm

Hundilein wrote:I don't want to start a debate about prong collars, but I have a question for those of you who use them. Is it common practice to turn all of the prongs so they are facing out because a dog yelps at a correction when the collar is put on normally (ie prongs turned in)?


I've never seen this, as Michelle says this would defeat the point. I have seen people turn every other one out, or half and half (one side in one side out...). :rolleyes2: But these aren't people I'd trust to train anyone, dog or people. The reason I heard was so it was only "partly" unpleasant. :neutral:
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Postby katiek0417 » September 21st, 2009, 6:35 am

Ummm....yeah....why not use a martingale??? :?

What I WILL say is I have seen people do this when they first introduce a prong collar to the dog, but aren't using it, yet. Many people (including myself) allow a dog to wear a prong collar for anywhere from 1 week to a month before ever giving a correction with it. It just gets the dog used to wearing it (something you can't achieve with a martingale because they aren't the same weight, etc)....the leash never gets attached to it, it's just there. For Greg and myself, I let the prongs face in. But I know many people who face the prongs out with their clients so that their clients aren't tempted to try to use them during this period....
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Postby DemoDick » September 21st, 2009, 10:20 am

TheRedQueen wrote:
Hundilein wrote:I don't want to start a debate about prong collars, but I have a question for those of you who use them. Is it common practice to turn all of the prongs so they are facing out because a dog yelps at a correction when the collar is put on normally (ie prongs turned in)?


I've never seen this, as Michelle says this would defeat the point. I have seen people turn every other one out, or half and half (one side in one side out...). :rolleyes2: But these aren't people I'd trust to train anyone, dog or people. The reason I heard was so it was only "partly" unpleasant. :neutral:


I would imagine that turning half the prongs outward would make for a more unpleasant correction, as the same amount of physical force would be transmitted through half as many points.

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Postby mnp13 » September 21st, 2009, 1:08 pm

DemoDick wrote:I would imagine that turning half the prongs outward would make for a more unpleasant correction, as the same amount of physical force would be transmitted through half as many points.


Actually, it doesn't work that way. With half of the prongs facing out, it works a lot like when people have one of the ginormous prongs on the dog and/or collars that are far too large - or both. The points don't come together so there isn't really a "pinch" it just pokes and is annoying. Again, just a nag, not a correction.

When looking for a prong collar for your dog, you want to get the smallest one that you can - the smallest links you can find that are heavy enough to hold your dog. We use minis with all three of our dogs and they have yet to bend or damage a single link. The smaller the links, the more of them you use, the more of them you use, the more efficient the correction... and in the long run you will need to use lighter corrections and correct the dog less.
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Postby hugapitbull » September 21st, 2009, 1:12 pm

When we picked up Duke in Ohio, they had the prongs turned out on his collar. I suspect after he was trained with one, as long as the collar is on he will behave, but I haven't tested that theory personally. Dont' want to rock the boat while he is acting like a normal dog. I know without it will will act like a butt head! :|
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Postby SvcDogSawyer » September 21st, 2009, 3:37 pm

There is another possibility why some people do that. It could be used as a deterent so people and other dogs can't grab them by the collar/throat and it make the dog look tough. Some of the Fidos trainers have put on the collars with half turned out because "it was too much for dog otherwise" or "the dog doesn't scream as loud". I've even heard a hearing dog client say, it gets caught in her hair(standard Poodle) when I use all the prongs.

I have seen ill fitted prong collars roll, not very often but it does happen.
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Postby mnp13 » September 21st, 2009, 11:19 pm

hugapitbull wrote:When we picked up Duke in Ohio, they had the prongs turned out on his collar. I suspect after he was trained with one, as long as the collar is on he will behave, but I haven't tested that theory personally. Dont' want to rock the boat while he is acting like a normal dog. I know without it will will act like a butt head! :|


But why bother having it on if you can't use it if you need it? And if you don't need it, why not wean him off it? It's always better to not have to rely on a collar to make a dog behave.

SvcDogSawyer wrote:Some of the Fidos trainers have put on the collars with half turned out because "it was too much for dog otherwise" or "the dog doesn't scream as loud"

Well, both of those excuses have to do with the same thing - turning half of the prongs outwards makes the collar almost completely useless in the manner it is designed for. So in my mind, why bother using it :|
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Postby TheRedQueen » September 21st, 2009, 11:39 pm

mnp13 wrote:
hugapitbull wrote:When we picked up Duke in Ohio, they had the prongs turned out on his collar. I suspect after he was trained with one, as long as the collar is on he will behave, but I haven't tested that theory personally. Dont' want to rock the boat while he is acting like a normal dog. I know without it will will act like a butt head! :|


But why bother having it on if you can't use it if you need it? And if you don't need it, why not wean him off it? It's always better to not have to rely on a collar to make a dog behave.


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Postby furever_pit » September 22nd, 2009, 12:31 am

I have never seen this. Odd. :|
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Postby hugapitbull » September 22nd, 2009, 1:11 pm

mnp13 wrote:
hugapitbull wrote:When we picked up Duke in Ohio, they had the prongs turned out on his collar. I suspect after he was trained with one, as long as the collar is on he will behave, but I haven't tested that theory personally. Dont' want to rock the boat while he is acting like a normal dog. I know without it will will act like a butt head! :|


But why bother having it on if you can't use it if you need it? And if you don't need it, why not wean him off it? It's always better to not have to rely on a collar to make a dog behave.


I don't think I expressed what I was thinking correctly - brain got ahead of fingers.
I do use the pinch collar as it is designed to be used. However, when they brought Duke out to us the collar was turned with the prongs out.

After getting him home, I initially tried using just a flat collar and that wasn't working at all, so I began using the prong collar with much better results. I would love to be able to wean him off it completely, and maybe one day that can happen.
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Postby juniper8204 » September 22nd, 2009, 9:19 pm

I recently saw a vid on youtube of a blue "short n wide" with one of the HUGE prong collars on and it was turned with the prongs sticking out. The dog was pulling as hard as he could on the leash, so the purpose of the collar is null and void. I think the owner put it on just to make the dog look tough. I wanted to comment on the vid, but comments were disabled.

I use prongs on all my dogs. The only time prongs were turned inside out was when I didn't get the collar off of Raja in time after a walk and the other dogs were playing with her and it turned. I have one dog who's been weaned off the prong, but now and again, she needs a refresher, but I haven't had to do that in at least six months.
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Postby TheRedQueen » September 22nd, 2009, 10:18 pm

juniper8204 wrote:I recently saw a vid on youtube of a blue "short n wide" with one of the HUGE prong collars on and it was turned with the prongs sticking out. The dog was pulling as hard as he could on the leash, so the purpose of the collar is null and void. I think the owner put it on just to make the dog look tough. I wanted to comment on the vid, but comments were disabled.



I saw a poster once with a bully breed...if I remember, it was a pit bull type...wearing sunglasses and a inside out prong collar...some sort of "tough" motivational type poster. Very odd, I thought. :rolleyes2:
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Postby BullyLady » September 22nd, 2009, 10:35 pm

mnp13 wrote:When looking for a prong collar for your dog, you want to get the smallest one that you can - the smallest links you can find that are heavy enough to hold your dog. We use minis with all three of our dogs and they have yet to bend or damage a single link. The smaller the links, the more of them you use, the more of them you use, the more efficient the correction... and in the long run you will need to use lighter corrections and correct the dog less.


I use a mini on Shelby as well, even though I needed like 10 extra links. :giggle: One time I left her prong in the car, which Eric had taken, so I tried Sirius' prong on her that has the large links.... yea.... she laughed in my face at that collar. I hadn't realized until then how much the size of the links really does change the correction!
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