Faust needs Brat Class... maybe???

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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 2:44 pm

As you all know - Faust didn't have the best home life before I got him.
And as soon as he was halfway comfortable at my house he ended up spending a week at the vets for Parvo.
He came home and exhibited some bratty behavior then - biting, pottying in the house, snarky/possessive over toys and treats, destroying his beeding in the crate, etc.
We worked on that a lot, and he's pretty much back to "normal"... we have very little issues, and most of them I chalk up to him being a young puppy who doesn't yet know any better. :)
He's still VERY unsure of strange people, however... he will immediately cower and sometimes even pee when he's approached. He'd also rather avoid being petted unless he makes the first move.
He does like the people at the vet though, since we've been there pretty much once a week so far... :rolleyes2: lol
He is friendly, wags his tail, and accept treats from certain vet techs... also goes up to them and enjoys belly rubs, and has never exhibited any aggression, even when poked and prodded.

Anywho - at home he's like my velcro dog and follows me constantly.
Today a woman came over to pick up some stuff for the Salvation Army, and Faust followed me out on the porch. The woman sort of "cornered" him and when she bend over to pet him he cowered right away and peed on the porch. I asked her to "please, ignore him because he's not comfortable around people he doesn't know yet"... and, of course, she ignored me, because "... oh, ALL dogs LOVE me!" :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:
Before I could even respond she proceeded to pick him up... and he let out a growl/snarl, turned - and bit her. Yes, there was blood, even though he still has his puppy teeth.
Her response was to get very pissed off at me, because apparently he will turn into a killer when he grows up... and because I didn't "give him a good, hard smack" after he "attacked" her.
In all fairness I should mention that this lady very much reminded me of Fausts former "owner"... in the way she was dressed to her manner of speaking.

After the bite Faust cowered again and peed some more, so I simply picked him up and brought him in the house until the woman was gone. I did not "console" him or even acknowledge him in any way - just put him in his crate and left the room.

I'm not excusing him biting, but I've had other people come to the house and if they let him approach first he's fine w/being petted.

So, since I went through the exact same thing w/Mick I don't want to repeat history and unwittingly "encourage" fear aggression. Help!
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Postby jnreem » July 27th, 2009, 2:56 pm

why did the lady preceed to pick him up when he was clearly timid about her anyways? Buddy used to do the same thing when he was a baby, he only pees now when he is too excited for his own good. lol
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Postby mnp13 » July 27th, 2009, 2:56 pm

Frankly, I don't blame him for biting, and I don't think you should either. He gave every sign that he didn't want her to touch him, but she cornered him, ignored your directions and then picked him up.

Personally, I don't like it when people touch me if you tried to pick me up, I'll bite too.

However, it is your responsibility to protect him from people like this. In the future, either scoop him up and put him in his crate (which will help to not encourage him to cower just for attention) or give VERY specific instructions on how to meet him.

A good way to tell people to meet your dog if it is shy is to tell them to turn completely sideways to the dog and hold their hand out while looking the other way. If they refuse to follow your instructions, remove him from the area - and make sure you communicate that they are the rude ones.
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:00 pm

I am 100% in agreement with Michelle. He did give every indication he didn't want her to touch him, she chose to ignore that.
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Postby Patch O' Pits » July 27th, 2009, 3:03 pm

Crappy situation. I'm so sorry it happened to you both.

I'd suggest just being more assertive with people and keeping an eye on his behavior. Have you done any classes with him to try to build up confidence.

An active mind can lead to more confidence IMO.

I hope things get better.
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:03 pm

mnp13 wrote:.

However, it is your responsibility to protect him from people like this. In the future, either scoop him up and put him in his crate (which will help to not encourage him to cower just for attention) or give VERY specific instructions on how to meet him.



Yeah, I know it is... *sigh*
Her grabby hands were faster than my mouth. :rolleyes2:
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:08 pm

Patch O' Pits wrote:Crappy situation. I'm so sorry it happened to you both.

I'd suggest just being more assertive with people and keeping an eye on his behavior. Have you done any classes with him to try to build up confidence.

An active mind can lead to more confidence IMO.

I hope things get better.


No, no classes. There is nothing around here other than a Petsmart, and I think he would be totally overwhelmed by all those new people AND dogs.
And I thought by asking the woman to leave him be... you know? I always respect other peoples requests when it comes to handling (or not) their pets.
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:10 pm

Any chance you can speak to your vet and get recommendations about working with a personal trainer one on one? I also don't think Petsmart classes are the way to go.
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:12 pm

Jenn... he's going in to get snipped tomorrow. I will ask our vet. :)
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 27th, 2009, 3:13 pm

My girlfriend is going through this with one of her pit bulls right now - he's extremely fear-aggressive to people (abused as a pup) but he's ridiculously cute so people ignore her and keep approaching him, hands out, and then got all shocked when he lunges and snaps at them. I've started to get meaner with her and just lay it on the line that when he does that it's HER fault for not protecting him. I told her she needs to get in between him and the people and be rude if necessary - "my dog was abused, he will bite you."

That being said, Christine, people are oblivious and always seem to think that they will be the only person your dog likes. Be blunt and rude, or put him away. :)
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:21 pm

amazincc wrote:Jenn... he's going in to get snipped tomorrow. I will ask our vet. :)



Good vibes for the jewels coming his way!
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:22 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:"my dog was abused, he will bite you."


I like this blunt approach.
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:33 pm

LMM wrote:
pitbullmamaliz wrote:"my dog was abused, he will bite you."


I like this blunt approach.


Well, I do, too... lol

BUT we're talking about a 4-months old puppy, and I don't want to get to that point. I always "protected" Mick from people (also starting at 4 months old), but I think it had the opposite affect on him. He ended up being extremely anxious and fearful because he was never around people enough to learn/realize that not everyone was out to hurt him.
It took a few weeks before Faust didn't pee when I approached him, so who knows what was done to him at the other house (besides what I witnessed in person)... I don't want to get caught up in the "poor-puppy-had-a-horrible-past" thing again... you know? :oops:
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:36 pm

You do realize that this doesn't even have to be true to be said, right? ;)

I absolutely don't think you will let it get to that point but especially right now it's your job to protect him any way you can from the ignoramouses of the world. Just save his people socialization for people who will actually listen to what you have to say by way of guidelines and will also follow Faust's lead. You know, like us :D
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » July 27th, 2009, 3:40 pm

I agree with Jenn. For now, until he completely gets over his medical stuff, I think it's best for people not to approach him. After that, you'll just need to take a long time and teach him that approaching people means good things coming (from you, not them). But I'd say until his medical stuff is over with, "he was abused, he will bite."
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:41 pm

LMM wrote:You do realize that this doesn't even have to be true to be said, right? ;)


You lost me... :? lol

I absolutely don't think you will let it get to that point but especially right now it's your job to protect him any way you can from the ignoramouses of the world. Just save his people socialization for people who will actually listen to what you have to say by way of guidelines and will also follow Faust's lead. You know, like us :D


Yup, I get that... so, when are you all showing up at my house??? :D

(And a little paranoia goes a looooong way. :| I will NEVER do to another dog what I did to Mick. Even if it was done out of love.)
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:44 pm

I've been thinking about a fall trip ;)

I'm just saying that you saying that doesn't mean Faust WILL bite. It's just a safety measure right now. It's quick and effective for people like this dolt of a woman who ignored what you had to say about YOUR dog.
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Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:55 pm

LMM wrote:I've been thinking about a fall trip ;)


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Really??? :confetti: :clap: :D
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Postby LMM » July 27th, 2009, 3:57 pm

Yea, now that I have this handy dandy GPS I'm itching to travel lol
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Postby TheRedQueen » July 27th, 2009, 3:57 pm

I agree with Michelle too...

Having a fear aggressive dog (Inara), I'll say this. She is NEVER petted or approached by strangers. She is the one to choose who she goes to for petting, etc. If people are in the house, she's put away...just in case. This way we both stay sane. She can come out later to say hi, but not when they're coming in...it's just too much for her still.

I do a lot of LAT (look at that) with her around strangers in public places...but keep folks from coming up to her...I do have to be blunt at times. :| I tell her that she doesn't have to be everyone's friend, but she doesn't have to take matters into her own hands (paws?). You've got to help him to trust that you'll keep him safe.

That said, you can work on this "problem".

I would say that a class is your best bet...a good puppy class that works heavily on socialization, rather than obedience. Even if you have to drive to find a good class, I think it's worth your while. :dance: He needs to have good experiences with lots of different people, places and things. Barring that, take him places...it's not enough to meet people at home. Take him places and play the LAT game...make him realize that people mean GOOD things happening. Go prepared with toys, treats, etc. Be ready to walk away from people approaching...(I often pretend that I forgot something...mutter to myself and turn around)...be ready to protect him from well-meaning adults and kids that rush up at him. YOU are the one that gives treats when people are around...it's probably too soon to expect him to take treats from strangers.
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