More effective…the Gentle Leader allows owners to communicate with their pet in a way that dogs instinctively understand. The nose loop encircles the dog’s muzzle and applies light pressure in the same manner in which lead dogs naturally communicate with dogs lower in rank. Because of the placement of the nose loop, the dog immediately understands its place in the hierarchy and recognizes the owner as the leader.
He seems to really enjoy the walks, but will RUN the minute he even THINKS I've reached and gotten it from the drawer.
People on the other side of the fence make him more nervous-----jumping around, barking at them... hackles up (his hackles raise even if he's thrilled about something) and won't come close.
When I have him around people with the head collar on, he's very shy and runs behind me to get away from whoever is talking to us...ESPECIALLY if they are focusing on him.
It's a good thing I'm really FAST walker, or I think he'd be pulling me even more than he does with the head collar.
I feel like I've failed Dar by considering the prong,,,,,,,,,,,I really really wanted to do the positive stuff, but maybe I'm just not consistent enough, or maybe I"m just too lazy.
TheRedQueen wrote:My initial thoughts are that if he's starting to growl, that a prong collar might not help matters, but make things worse. If you use a physical correction for a behavior that is fear-based, it can cause the dog to fear that thing even more...or become *more* aggressive. The fearful behavior may NOT be equipment-based...so be aware of that.
The prong will definitely help you with the pulling, as does the head halter...but remember, they're both TOOLS. They're to help you get the behavior that you want...(loose leash walking/LLW)...but it's not an overnight fix, no matter which you choose. Unless you choose to use them as management tools, you'll still have to work on not pulling, and weaning him off the equipment.
I don't use head halters much anymore, because unless the dog is conditioned to them early on, they often shut down as you're mentioning. My first choice is a buckle/flat collar, then I go with a front clip harness. Both pieces of equipment go along with TONS of positive reinforcement for LLW. I do use head halters for reactive/aggressive dogs, so the head/mouth is under better control.
How old is Dar now...?
Fence stuff is generally barrier frustration; kind of like "I'm not sure if you're here for a good reason or a bad reason and I can't get out so you stay away!!" It's no different from dogs in cars or any other confinement.
BullyLady wrote:just the self-corrections that are issued when the dog pulls too tightly on the lead.
amazincc wrote:So... is it possible that Dar views the GL as a sort of "fence/barrier" around his mouth? And that it makes him feel insecure?
DemoDick wrote:amazincc wrote:So... is it possible that Dar views the GL as a sort of "fence/barrier" around his mouth? And that it makes him feel insecure?
Yes, this is not only possible, but likely.
The pulling is a seperate issue. If the dog is pulling, there is an underlying lack of respect going on. This is not fixed with correction collars alone. Plenty of people who think they need to use a prong actually have dogs that will respond to a flat collar correction, if it is correctly applied. Unfortunately, for many people, a prong quickly becomes a management instead of a training tool.
-----Just joking. but still. I feel inadequate....
amazincc wrote:ArtGypsy wrote:
Oh, I do, too... all the damned time.
Which really isn't a "bad" thing, because it makes me want to keep learning, and it keeps me asking questions...
The day I declare myself perfect I will shoot myself.
.I put the GL back on him, and VIOLA'....he stood more still, "calmed"? down
mnp13 wrote:.I put the GL back on him, and VIOLA'....he stood more still, "calmed"? down
no. SHUT down.
If you put it on and it's a "magic" change then it is not functioning as a training tool, it is functioning as a management tool and that is very different.
amazincc wrote:Are you bringing Dar to NY???
I do think you could use a prong collar, but why? I guess my question it, strength or not, why not correct the problem? Also using a prong collar could make his reaction worse if he decides he is really freaked out about something. You could have the same issue with the prong collar as you have with the gentle leader.
I'm kind of curious as to what your corrections are when he pulls you? When my dog's do something I don't want them to do I make an "ah-ah" noise. I've always done it with my horse and it carried over to my dogs. It gets their attention regardless. When my dog is pulling me, I do a quick jerk and release. Your dog pulls because he is used to the tension being on his neck, you should be teaching him to back off of pressure rather than go into it.
I'm not anti prong collar but I feel like it doesn't teach your dog anything because when he isn't wearing the collar he will still pull you around. If that's what you need to teach him how to respond to a leash correction better, in hopes of moving him back down to a flat collar, than I think it could work.
But i don't think a prong collar should be the answer to your problem. When you go for a walk YOU are in charge, and you should be the one calling the shots, you dog should never lead unless you allow them to. He needs to learn that he isn't in charge, you are.
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