DemoDick wrote:I think you're missing the point of the post you were addressing. You can't really compare your dogs to the average dog that gets put into a board and train situation. First, your dogs (meaning yours and Greg's) are competition dogs whose entire life is structured around performance. For most dogs, that has a huge effect on how they will work for anyone, regardless of whether they have bonded with that person (I know a few of your guys are different in this regard, as is my dog). Two, you guys are both handlers, so that also has an effect. If I pick up the leash of someone else's competition dog he's going to read very quickly that I know what I'm doing vs. average Joe who will likely crap himself when he realizes there's a trained biting dog at the end of the leash. Unless, as stated, said dog doesn't tolerate assertiveness from a "stranger." Third, the average board and train dog is coming into the kennel without the benefit of working dog genetics.
I think the original point was that for the average pet, owned by the average person, board and train fails to address the key issue, which is owner education. It also appeals to the very type of person who needs to be educated the most, i.e. clueless owners who have unintentionally created and reinforced problem behaviors and who just want to drop the dog off while they go on vacation while the dog is "fixed." On this point, I tend to agree. Now, plenty of trainers do board and train with owner follow-up, and plenty of owners do board and train without regressing back to bad habits, but all too often, board and train is a quick, and temporary fix that would be better addressed with long term strategies.
You also selectively quoted what I said, and left out the next line of my post:
Granted, these dogs have more than pet obedience - but I have seen a lot of the training on Jue and Asja - and Greg didn't use "yanking and cranking" with them (he used corrections, but, like me, he used much more positive reinforcement than positive punishment).
But, I have seen people with LITTLE handling experience do stuff with dogs like Asja...in fact, when I had JUST started to train with Greg, Asja and his old pit Rusty lived with me for a while. All I really had at the time was Sacha (I had Nisha, but she was a baby)...yet, when I told them to do something they did....so, I was the so called "average Joe" that you refer to in your post (and I can promise I had NO idea how to handle a dog like that at that time - I was far from being half the handler I am now - and I'm still not perfect). If they were living in my house, they were going to listen to me. End of story. I didn't care whether there was a biting dog at the other end of the line. (In fact, Greg decided to sell Rusty, but had he not sold Rusty, I was going to bring him out of retirement).
Yes, boarding and training is sometimes used as a fix. Sometimes, however, it really is used to take hold of a situation, and the owners are diligent in what they do. Maybe Greg's was lucky at the old kennel, but this was his experience more often than not....and these dogs had on-leash and some off-leash obedience....I got to see some of these dogs on Saturday afternoons after training...I would usually stick around to hang with Greg when people came in for their follow-ups...it had usually been 3-4 weeks after the dog was boarded...and the dogs were listening to their owners, and were obeying them.