Board and Train

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Postby mnp13 » March 30th, 2009, 11:49 am

Has anyone ever done a board and train or worked for a place that does?

How much does it cost?
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Postby Hundilein » March 30th, 2009, 12:09 pm

The place I work at now does board and train and charges $350 per week.

And here's the site for board and train at the place I take Renee to for agility
http://doglogictraining.com/board_training.php
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Postby babyreba » March 30th, 2009, 12:15 pm

i don't work for a place that does it, but i am friends with someone who does it regularly, and she charges $500 per week.
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Postby mnp13 » March 30th, 2009, 12:45 pm

does she carry separate insurance for the training?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » March 30th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Michelle, you planning on sending Riggs away to obedience school? :wink:
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Postby mnp13 » March 30th, 2009, 2:12 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Michelle, you planning on sending Riggs away to obedience school? :wink:


suuuuuuure. that would be productive! lol
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 30th, 2009, 2:15 pm

I did it years ago with Munkee & I will never do it again. I think I paid around $300 & I have reason to believe Munkee was abused while there.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » March 30th, 2009, 2:28 pm

Yeah, I'd never trust Inara out of sight with a trainer.

Are you guys contemplating starting up a board/train program?
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Postby mnp13 » March 30th, 2009, 2:35 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Yeah, I'd never trust Inara out of sight with a trainer.

Are you guys contemplating starting up a board/train program?


ya... no.

I'd never send my dogs out of sight. I have a hard time letting people work Ruby when I'm standing there! Riggs... well... he's sweet as pie when he wants to be, but when he doesn't want to be... yeah, I'm not thinking it would go well.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » March 30th, 2009, 2:57 pm

No, I didn't mean starting one up by sending your dogs away. I meant starting one up by taking in a dog for boarding and you guys do the training.
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Postby SisMorphine » March 30th, 2009, 3:05 pm

I was forced to do board and trains while I worked at the last place. Total smurfing rip off, IMHO. $375 plus the cost of boarding. Your $375 bought you five 1 hour sessions and a follow up hour upon pick up.

I seriously despise board and trains. I think they're useless and lazy.
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Postby katiek0417 » March 30th, 2009, 3:57 pm

We've been looking at facilities for Greg's training business...so I've been looking into this stuff for him.

From what i found, you have to have insurance for a boarding kennel. And for that, you need a business license, and a kennel license. As part of the insurance you need to have General Liability insurance; Professional liability (for you and employees); and animal injury, group, homeowner, health, life coverage (pays for animal injury in your care); kennels may also want: crime coverage, loss of income coverage, building and contents coverage.

As Greg and I have been talking about it, we were thinking of doing 3 weeks: $800, which would cover basic on-leash obedience (with a solid "come") and boarding. Owners provide food and supplements.
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 30th, 2009, 4:28 pm

SisMorphine wrote:I was forced to do board and trains while I worked at the last place. Total smurfing rip off, IMHO. $375 plus the cost of boarding. Your $375 bought you five 1 hour sessions and a follow up hour upon pick up.

I seriously despise board and trains. I think they're useless and lazy.


Same here...when I worked at a kennel years ago, I had to offer board n' trains...they're good money makers...but not a great way to train. It was well over $400/month...with a handful of follow-up visits.

I offer them now, but for Assistance Dog training...for specific skills that a person with a disability might have a hard time training themselves. :|
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Postby hugapitbull » March 30th, 2009, 5:54 pm

We had Trouble board and trained when she was about 8-9 months old. We were going to be in Alaska for 2 weeks and thought it would be the perfect opportunity to get her trained.

It was our first attempt at training a pet, and I would never do it that way again. To this day I have no doubt she would do anything the trainer wanted, but she never had the same dedication (or maybe fear?) to performing the same for us.

She knows her commands, and but will think about whether or not she wants to respond. You can see that split second of hesitation even when she is working well for one of us.

IMO it is much better for the owner to be the one who works with the dog.
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Postby Dog_Shrink » March 30th, 2009, 6:56 pm

I have done training similar to that. Don't necessarly know if I'd call it board and train because the dog lives here with me and my pack for the time it needs training (usually 2 weeks), gets 24/7 attention with hands on training in anevery day living environment. I charge $20 a day for non-clients (some one who has previously taken a program with me) and $15 for previous clients.

I also offer a program for puppy transitioning since in Pa. They can be sold at 7 weeks and really should stay with the litter until at least 10 weeks for the best psychological development potential. We keep your pup here again with my pack, start implimenting basic training techniques such as bite limiting behaviors (my guys are really great puppy raisers) , basic control commands, beginner potty breaking, and socializing. Many client's who have taken that program really see the difference in the pup when they get them back they are soooo much more calm and a ton less mouthy. That price is $200.00 for the puppy program.
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Postby call2arms » March 30th, 2009, 10:24 pm

ha...

I only know of bad things about board and train... I had a friend (who did not listen to me!!) who sent her 6 month old labx chow to a ''reputable'' board and train school (they had 2 facilities, one in town and one in the country)... She knew her dog would be taken to the country for some sessions, but she went to one class a week, and I went with her to one. Saw a chihuahua getting his head choked off to learn how to heel. I was pissed off, but I kept my trap shut. Then, my friend started chatting with a girl in the parking after the class, and found out that they had been abusing her dog to do protection training (and that didn't work, obviously, her dog is still a marshmallow, thank god), and that they had been using an e-collar to train long down and stays. They never asked her, and she never tought to ask, She immediately pulled her dog and sued them. I don't know if they ever reimbursed the outrageous $2000-something she had paid for 5 weeks. Ridiculous.

Then, the lady I worked for at the boarding place did some ''special cases'' as board and train, oh boy. What happens when the owners are not around. Needless to say I didn't stay there long. She charged over 200$ a week, and she had just opened business.

I don't even see the point of getting your dog trained by a complete stranger when you want it to bond and listen to YOU. But hey, you don't have to lift a finger, just open your wallet right?
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Postby Dog_Shrink » March 30th, 2009, 11:23 pm

I have to disagree with the just open your wallett part because my board and train is an absolute last resort option if all else has failed and we NEVER use harsh tactics. I know not everyone is as honest as I am with their training techniques, but THOSE are the people that should be sued and shut down for abusing not only peoples dogs, but their trust too. It makes what I do just THAT much harder, but at least I do take customer testimonials and have the opportunity for potential clients to contact past clients if they want to.

Just don't judge us all based on what some idiots out there do.
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Postby Cult37 » March 31st, 2009, 1:07 am

I know I am fairly new around here but my basic instinct is that board and trains are not good ideas. In the long run most of them realize that any training with a dog takes time and ind in order to get results in a limited time frame the most effective and humane training techniques are thrown to the wayside... positive reinforcement isn't fast enough... There is a guy named leerburg that I have read a few articles and whatnot that he wrote who I think you would be interested in finding before starting up... I think he too shares the opinion that the only way to get fully effective results out of limited time is to use yank and crank methods ...
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Postby katiek0417 » March 31st, 2009, 5:47 am

Cult37 wrote:I know I am fairly new around here but my basic instinct is that board and trains are not good ideas. In the long run most of them realize that any training with a dog takes time and ind in order to get results in a limited time frame the most effective and humane training techniques are thrown to the wayside... positive reinforcement isn't fast enough... There is a guy named leerburg that I have read a few articles and whatnot that he wrote who I think you would be interested in finding before starting up... I think he too shares the opinion that the only way to get fully effective results out of limited time is to use yank and crank methods ...


Just an FYI - the Leerburg person you're speaking of is Ed Frawley of Leerburg Kennels...and it is the same person that, openly, on his website, has recommended stringing a dog up over a tree branch and hanging it until it passes out if it's dominant. There are many who don't put a lot of faith in what he has to say...

I disagree that you can't get results doing a board and train. I've seen many people who don't have a ton of time on their hands to work through the actual training of their dogs...so they board their dogs while they're on vacation (I had noticed that most of the clients at the old kennel Greg worked at would do it when it coincided with a vacation). When they come back, they do follow-up sessions (which was part of their package) where they learn the techniques that Greg used while training their dog. And he wasn't using "yank and crank" methods.

If you know what you're doing, and you are working on it for a few minutes every day, you can have a well-behaved dog in a matter of weeks. In all reality, in many of these places, even the trainers don't know how to train effectively. They don't understand that timing of rewards is of the utmost importance as is being consistent - in addition to working the dog in "drive" so that you're using a reward that's very important to the dog. So, they need to yank and crank because they're not doing the other things effectively, and the dog doesn't understand what it is he/she is being asked.

I don't know...I've seen it be very effective when done the right way - and I've seen it done without using the harsh methods that many of you are referring to (trust me, I've seen it done that way as well). However, like with anything else you do for your dogs, I think you need to do your research. Ask for references of previous clients (even ask to meet their dogs and watch them do some obedience)...I'd be looking for a happy dog that listens to the owner.

hugapitbull wrote:We had Trouble board and trained when she was about 8-9 months old. We were going to be in Alaska for 2 weeks and thought it would be the perfect opportunity to get her trained.

It was our first attempt at training a pet, and I would never do it that way again. To this day I have no doubt she would do anything the trainer wanted, but she never had the same dedication (or maybe fear?) to performing the same for us.

She knows her commands, and but will think about whether or not she wants to respond. You can see that split second of hesitation even when she is working well for one of us.

IMO it is much better for the owner to be the one who works with the dog.


I wanted to address this. In the working/sport dog world, trained dogs get sold and bought every day. And the new owner goes on to show and compete with that dog successfully, even at high levels. I bought Cy as a trained dog. I used NO corrections the first 2 weeks I had him (you don't want to use corrections on a dog like that when you haven't bonded with him yet because it can be dangerous)...but I did everything motivationally, and when I said "au pied" he came into a perfect heel position and looked up at me - he wasn't even wearing a leash and a collar at the time!

Another example, I certainly did no training with Jue or Asja (they're Greg's dogs, and he did every ounce of training with him)...but if I'm out with Jue (I use him as the example because I tend to have to use more obedience with him on walks since he's not friendly), and I tell him "fulligan" (his heel command) he immediately starts attention heeling with me, prance and all (I sometimes wish he didn't do the prance b/c I usually end up tripping over him)....

Granted, these dogs have more than pet obedience - but I have seen a lot of the training on Jue and Asja - and Greg didn't use "yanking and cranking" with them (he used corrections, but, like me, he used much more positive reinforcement than positive punishment). They work very happily (as does Cy) and they'll work for someone other than the primary trainer (like me).

(Actually, a funny story about this was 2 years ago, we had the decoy seminar in Baltimore...well, one of the guys that Greg was friends with tried an experiment with Asja. He didn't really know Asja - I mean, he had met her - and he took bites from her - but he had never worked with her. Anyway, he bet Greg that he could do obedience with her, then send her for a bite on Greg. Needless to say, he won the bet. lol She was running full force towards Greg (who wasn't wearing any equipment) and Greg was like "whoa, no, auf." She downed and listened to him...but it was still funny that this guy could do that with her).
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Postby DemoDick » March 31st, 2009, 8:56 am

I wanted to address this. In the working/sport dog world, trained dogs get sold and bought every day. And the new owner goes on to show and compete with that dog successfully, even at high levels. I bought Cy as a trained dog. I used NO corrections the first 2 weeks I had him (you don't want to use corrections on a dog like that when you haven't bonded with him yet because it can be dangerous)...but I did everything motivationally, and when I said "au pied" he came into a perfect heel position and looked up at me - he wasn't even wearing a leash and a collar at the time!

Another example, I certainly did no training with Jue or Asja (they're Greg's dogs, and he did every ounce of training with him)...but if I'm out with Jue (I use him as the example because I tend to have to use more obedience with him on walks since he's not friendly), and I tell him "fulligan" (his heel command) he immediately starts attention heeling with me, prance and all (I sometimes wish he didn't do the prance b/c I usually end up tripping over him)....


I think you're missing the point of the post you were addressing. You can't really compare your dogs to the average dog that gets put into a board and train situation. First, your dogs (meaning yours and Greg's) are competition dogs whose entire life is structured around performance. For most dogs, that has a huge effect on how they will work for anyone, regardless of whether they have bonded with that person (I know a few of your guys are different in this regard, as is my dog). Two, you guys are both handlers, so that also has an effect. If I pick up the leash of someone else's competition dog he's going to read very quickly that I know what I'm doing vs. average Joe who will likely crap himself when he realizes there's a trained biting dog at the end of the leash. Unless, as stated, said dog doesn't tolerate assertiveness from a "stranger." Third, the average board and train dog is coming into the kennel without the benefit of working dog genetics.

I think the original point was that for the average pet, owned by the average person, board and train fails to address the key issue, which is owner education. It also appeals to the very type of person who needs to be educated the most, i.e. clueless owners who have unintentionally created and reinforced problem behaviors and who just want to drop the dog off while they go on vacation while the dog is "fixed." On this point, I tend to agree. Now, plenty of trainers do board and train with owner follow-up, and plenty of owners do board and train without regressing back to bad habits, but all too often, board and train is a quick, and temporary fix that would be better addressed with long term strategies.

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