Oh No...Dar and Macy Fighting!!!!!!!!

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Postby ArtGypsy » March 20th, 2009, 7:31 pm

On top of everything else going on, I now have trouble with Dar and Macy Fighting......((makes me wanna cry, just typing the sentence))..

Over a week ago, I noticed Dar trying harder to play..........much more persistent and Macy less playful and more 'putting him in his place' and kinda just BARKING AT HIM and then trying to Chase Him Off. And Even if he would head under the bed to bark At Her, she wouldn't just leave him alone, but would keep "lecturing' him by barking (mean barking) at him.

About a week ago, I noticed the first sign that things were heading in a bad direction when they flipped out over THE SMELL of a cat food can on the counter. In NO TIME at all, Dar had Macy ((remember she's 11 or 12 and smaller than him now)) Down on the ground, and she was screaming.

I immediately got him off of her.......she ran and I drug him into the crate to contain him, as he tried to get at her....

Two days ago,,,,,,,they were playing a little.............I heard a yelp, ((i think it was Dar)) but Macy stood with her paw up and limped away from him, hurt. He stood there, looking at her while I walked over to her, and as SOON as I reached down to soothe her, he jumped on her from behind, and got hold of her on the back of the neck !! She screamed (a horrible sound) and I got him off again.

Today............Cole and I were in the living room...........Dar barked at her, seemingly wanting her to play ((a lot of that teeth snapping though)),,,and Macy, once again, had NO TOLERANCE for this pup. She went right into growling snapping mode, and before Cole and I could even see what happened, Dar had her by the scruff of her neck, and this time I had a harder time getting him to let go.
Cole held Macy while I coaxed DAr to let her Go....Cole then carried DAr to the Crate.

Macy, shaking and extremely scared, sat on the couch while Cole, (almost teary) said he couldn't stand for 'that dog' to hurt his Macy.

A little later, as I tried to help DAr burn off energy in the yard, I noticed HE was the one that has several bloody puncture marks on his neck, side of face, etc.

I think Dar is an annoying, persistent kid, and Macy has become grossly intolerant of his antics.

But i also see other stuff....like he wants to jump on her immediately whenever they go in and out the door to the yard. Now she is scared to go out, and I have to crate Dar, and coax her outside.

I've been playing with Dar more and more outside--------trying to wear off some of his energy.

I would appreciate any insights.............they still seem to 'love' each other.......lay on the couch together, groom each other, etc., but there is something 'in the air' that's going on when it's not nap or bed time.

thanks...............Jody
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby katiek0417 » March 20th, 2009, 8:45 pm

Jody, I'm pretty sure after the first fight, I would have been very cautious allowing my dogs out again - ESPECIALLY if they were out of my sight.

I understand that you'd like for them to be out on the couch grooming each other - but, at this time, I think you'd be safer doing a crate and rotate. And if they are out together, they must be under strict supervision (although, like I said, after the first fight, I wouldn't be allowing them out together anymore).

Also, simply playing in the yard with Dar may not be enough - can you take him for a walk or to a park to play ball with him? I have found that no matter how much my dogs are played with in the yard, they get much more tired out when they are out of their "comfort zone."

Whatever you do, Dar and Macy must BOTH get the same amount of attention from you - even if it's separately!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby ArtGypsy » March 20th, 2009, 9:04 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Jody, I'm pretty sure after the first fight, I would have been very cautious allowing my dogs out again - ESPECIALLY if they were out of my sight.

I understand that you'd like for them to be out on the couch grooming each other - but, at this time, I think you'd be safer doing a crate and rotate. And if they are out together, they must be under strict supervision (although, like I said, after the first fight, I wouldn't be allowing them out together anymore).

Also, simply playing in the yard with Dar may not be enough - can you take him for a walk or to a park to play ball with him? I have found that no matter how much my dogs are played with in the yard, they get much more tired out when they are out of their "comfort zone."

Whatever you do, Dar and Macy must BOTH get the same amount of attention from you - even if it's separately!



:( :( :( :(
Thank you for the comments.......suggestions and insights. I really appreciate it.
I guess I just wanted the 'bliss' to continue. Dar is only crated when I'm gone from home.
Otherwise, both dogs have just 'lived' in the same space ever since we brought him home.

(((((((sigh))))))

I talked to the dog trainer lady in York today--------I was on the phone with her, setting up a playdate for Dar tomorrow when the fight broke out.
She too, said I should be walking Dar to wear him out.
which is the opposite information we got from the first professional, who said that there is no way we could every walk off enough energy he has, that we need to focus on fetch, tug games, interactive toy-treat games for him to entertain himself, etc.

now I have a dog that I can absolutely NOT HANDLE on a leash. He weighs close to 50 pounds of muscle and I'm simply not strong enough.

damn.

like I need this right now............. :shock:
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby katiek0417 » March 20th, 2009, 9:09 pm

Have you tried a gentle leader for walking? You need to do things to keep Dar's brain working...he needs to be mentally tired - which is as important as physical tiredness.

Have you been training with him? Does he have food drive? Can you hide food and let him search for it?

It's nice when your dogs get along...trust me, I know...but, and this is just my opinion, by continuing to allow them to be out together, you're almost asking for a MAJOR fight...which could end in severe injuries...or worse...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby ArtGypsy » March 20th, 2009, 9:47 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Have you tried a gentle leader for walking? You need to do things to keep Dar's brain working...he needs to be mentally tired - which is as important as physical tiredness.

Have you been training with him? Does he have food drive? Can you hide food and let him search for it?

It's nice when your dogs get along...trust me, I know...but, and this is just my opinion, by continuing to allow them to be out together, you're almost asking for a MAJOR fight...which could end in severe injuries...or worse...



No, I just try the reg. leash, which is fine except the second he wants to go a different way or faster. Then I'm so screwed.

yes, I work with him on BASIC commands througout the day and the evening for treats. I put food in a scrunched up plastic milk jug so he works to get the food out.....

At night (or when I'm eating in front of the tv), I always have hand fulls of cheerios (or the equiv) and make him sit, down, 'go get it', jump and catch, etc,., just to keep him busy.

I know this isn't enough............when he was younger, and with me home most days, me chasing him through the house and playing with his stuffies would wear him out--he'd fall asleep on the couch with me and Macy and Life was Good.

I agree I have to do something different with the dogs now..........we're just not in Kansas anymore...IN so many ways..........

Jody
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby madremissy » March 20th, 2009, 9:56 pm

Jody, First thing is: Breathe.

I also thought that our dogs would live in "bliss" and then when they started to have "discussions" I felt like a terrible owner. I felt like I was not doing the right things. But don't feel that way. Gotty and Kinzyl got along great until this past year. Something about the kitchen area set them off. Well now we take every precaution to keep them out of the house together. Gotty does stay upstairs in the apartment with Josh and Brit, but when he comes down we just don't let them together.
Now outside they play fine but someone is always standing right there with them.
It is Ok, it can be managed.
Also, it took me a long time to figure out the best way to "tire" Kinzyl out. Gotty loves the spring pole and chasing the ball. Kinzyl on the other hand loves to search for stuff. Like Katrina said, she needed her mind to be busy and feel like she had job. Now we go for a walk everyday and she thinks she is searching for something. Or I take her to the feild and hide something and let her search for it.
It can be done. Don't get discouraged. :hug3:
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Postby ArtGypsy » March 20th, 2009, 11:04 pm

madremissy wrote:Jody, First thing is: Breathe.

I also thought that our dogs would live in "bliss" and then when they started to have "discussions" I felt like a terrible owner. I felt like I was not doing the right things. But don't feel that way. Gotty and Kinzyl got along great until this past year. Something about the kitchen area set them off. Well now we take every precaution to keep them out of the house together. Gotty does stay upstairs in the apartment with Josh and Brit, but when he comes down we just don't let them together.
Now outside they play fine but someone is always standing right there with them.
It is Ok, it can be managed.
Also, it took me a long time to figure out the best way to "tire" Kinzyl out. Gotty loves the spring pole and chasing the ball. Kinzyl on the other hand loves to search for stuff. Like Katrina said, she needed her mind to be busy and feel like she had job. Now we go for a walk everyday and she thinks she is searching for something. Or I take her to the feild and hide something and let her search for it.
It can be done. Don't get discouraged. :hug3:


Oh......thank you......(sniff).....
Just reading this made me tear up..........I just feel so bad ALREADY.......and got so much positive-soothing 'stuff' from my dogs the last couple weeks..... that now thinking of crate-rotate, etc., makes me sad. Of course I will........I don't want anyone to get hurt. But (sniffly again)..........me being on the couch most of the time lately, with both dogs snoozing around me, was the best medicine.

I will start hiding food in the yard...........tomorrow he is goign to doggie play date at the trainer, who wants to see how he does with other dogs.
Wish us luck......

-----------Jody,,,,,,who learned some devastating details of her daughter's death this evening, and Can't stop crying.............
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby katiek0417 » March 20th, 2009, 11:07 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:
-----------Jody,,,,,,who learned some devastating details of her daughter's death this evening, and Can't stop crying.............


I'm sorry....if you ever need to talk, everyone on PBT is here for each other...ALWAYS :hug3:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby ArtGypsy » March 20th, 2009, 11:09 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
ArtGypsy wrote:
-----------Jody,,,,,,who learned some devastating details of her daughter's death this evening, and Can't stop crying.............


I'm sorry....if you ever need to talk, everyone on PBT is here for each other...ALWAYS :hug3:

----------You guys are Wonderful-------------

I just don't know how to get through all this..........

Jody
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby Marinepits » March 20th, 2009, 11:16 pm

I'm sorry you have to go through this. :hug3:

I had a very good friend pass away from cancer years ago, and right to the end she said "God never gives you more than you can handle."
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
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Postby katiek0417 » March 20th, 2009, 11:24 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:I just don't know how to get through all this..........

Jody


I'm so very sorry that you do have to go through this...it's never easy...a parent should never outlive his/her child...

But you will get through this...and you will stay strong...and you won't have to go through it alone...You have a lot of people to lean on....:hug3:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby airwalk » March 21st, 2009, 10:31 am

Jody, I understand about having dogs that are too strong to handle. There are lots of tools out there that can help you help him understand he needs to slow down.

I recommend talking with Erin (RedQueen) about clicker training, it'll work his mind and his body and help you help hiim slow down. In the mean time...there are gentle leaders, head halti's, sporn harnesses and front clip (easy walk) harnesses. All of which help you remain in control without having your shoulder torn out of socket.

I don't think anyone here is saying that they absolutely cannot be together yet...that may be where it ends up...but right now not together without very close supervision for sure. It sucks I know!
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Postby Jenn » March 21st, 2009, 10:40 am

Huge hug for you Jody, hang in there hon. :hug3:
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Postby SisMorphine » March 21st, 2009, 10:45 am

Jody, everyone has given you some great advice. I also want to add DON'T COMPLETELY LOSE HOPE!!

I had a DA akita/pit mix who lived alongside by uber dominant male Greyhound. Both constantly vying for my attention, both ready to take the other out to get it. In some cases there are ways to manage situations like this and train through so that your dogs will be able to be out together when you're around (with, of course, the understanding that a fight COULD break out at any time), just perhaps not play together.

You have had far too much go on in your life in the past month. Trust me, those emotions rub off on the dogs as well, which is something that could also be feeding into this issue. Now I didn't say that to make you feel bad (I hope you don't feel bad :( ), just to point out that this could just be a temporary upset in the house.

In addition to temporarily (hopefully) crating and rotating I would look into some NILIF, and into boosting Macy's confidence levels as far as her roll in the house.

*hugs*

We're here for you Jody.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby BigDogBuford » March 21st, 2009, 11:53 am

What Sis said. There has been a HUGE upheaval in your family and it affects *all* the family members, including the four legged ones.

*hugs* to you....it will work out!
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 21st, 2009, 6:45 pm

I agree, they are also feeling the stress and the sadness. I'm so very sorry Jody, no one should have to go through what you & your family is. I'm just so sorry.
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