TWHACK!!! CAT CLAW -RIGHT-TO-THE-LIP!!!!

[ArtGypsy]

OKAY.

((heaving chest and angry huffs))...........

Mr. Dar wouldn't leave Mr. Morton (the cat) alone .....wanting to tussle and play with him all night. Morton was less than thrilled.
I had a hold of Dar's leash and scooped up Morton from under neath the wiggly puppy's paws. I thought..hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (my first mistake) this could be a learning opportunity for mr Dar to learn No or Down.....so ........I held Morton and stood on Dar's leash as he tried (again and again) to jump up my leg to get to Morton......while all the time , I'm saying ""No Dar...Down"">>(practicing what I had been trying to teach him earlier))........
and after about the 10th time of this dog jumping up as far as the leash would go..^6 inches maybe?^ I kinda figured this was not going to be the learning opportunity I had thought. ((do they EVER JUST GIVE UP like OTHER dogs/?????!!!))....

and me???

heck
I was mad at everybody!

me
the cat
and the dog.

**eye roll**

but.

the one thing ...........in less than a second before I was going to discontinue the 'lesson', the ONE THING I FORGOT ABOUT????????? morton's TAIL........DANGLING DOWN IN FRONT OF PUPPY.

PUPPY GRABS TAIL.
MORTON TURNS TO ME AND EMBEDS HIS CLAWS IN MY FACE.


I THINK I saw STARS.........

oh
my
gosh
that
hurt.

MY LIP?? Feels like somebody stuck a hot match inside it!!

[madremissy]

[katiek0417]

Yikes, make sure you clean the scratches very well...it's so easy for cat scratches to get infected...

Also, just to use this opportunity to mention how I may do things differently....first, does Mr. Dar really know what down means? I mean, if you tell him down, will he down? Without a lure? If you've never worked the down with distractions, then you can't expect him to down when there's a huge distraction like a cat...

Second, by stepping on the leash, you were really correcting him for jumping up...not teaching him to go down (in this case)...personally, I don't use any corrections when pups are that young...on the other hand, if he was in a down, and you had put your foot on the leash, you are teaching him not to get up from a down (so to stay in a down).

At this age, everything I do with a puppy is positively reinforcing (food, clicker, etc). And I use lures, etc for a long time before I take away those lures, this is so that I can make sure the puppy understands what it is I'm asking, but also I set it up to succeed by doing this.... I'm also very careful with the messages I send to my dog. I make sure I'm clear in telling the dog what I want, and I try not to confuse it...

Take good care of your face!!!!! Seriously, keep it VERY clean!

[ArtGypsy]

Yikes, make sure you clean the scratches very well...it's so easy for cat scratches to get infected...

Also, just to use this opportunity to mention how I may do things differently....first, does Mr. Dar really know what down means? I mean, if you tell him down, will he down? Without a lure? If you've never worked the down with distractions, then you can't expect him to down when there's a huge distraction like a cat...

Second, by stepping on the leash, you were really correcting him for jumping up...not teaching him to go down (in this case)...personally, I don't use any corrections when pups are that young...on the other hand, if he was in a down, and you had put your foot on the leash, you are teaching him not to get up from a down (so to stay in a down).

At this age, everything I do with a puppy is positively reinforcing (food, clicker, etc). And I use lures, etc for a long time before I take away those lures, this is so that I can make sure the puppy understands what it is I'm asking, but also I set it up to succeed by doing this.... I'm also very careful with the messages I send to my dog. I make sure I'm clear in telling the dog what I want, and I try not to confuse it...

I know I blew it..........(sigh).............

I'm just not as good with this doggie stuff as I'd like to be.............He's so young,........and just so out of control at times. I love him to pieces, I do. But Holey Majoley he can BITE like the devil and just be totally rambunctious. PUPPY. ((repeating Mantra...he's little he's little he's little))

This is an instance when I had no idea what i was _really_ doing, but rather trying something because it SEEMED reasonable.

the truth is, no, Dar has no idea how to do a 'down' other than go from a sit to a down with food in my hand.
I was expecting way too much from him. .............

I really appreciate your input............

[Hundilein]

It's okay. Dar and the kitty will recover just fine, and hopefully your face will too (I second Katrina's advice to clean those cuts!).

What I did with my mouthy, obnoxious GSD mix puppy when I had a litter of foster kittens at my house was to teach her to lay down around the cats. I took delicious treats in the kitty room with me and lured Renee into a down, and then continued to feed her and praise her and allow her to sniff the kitties as long as she stayed down. I was lucky in that the kittens were not afraid of her (they were born at my house and I started letting Renee interact when they were around 5-6 weeks old) and didn't run away. They also stayed in one bedroom all the time, so I could easily keep Renee away from them.

With subsequent foster dogs, I introduced the dog to the cats in the living room, where the cats had a very tall cat tree they could perch on. The cats got cheese for sitting calmly on their cat tree and the dog got string cheese for paying attention to me and staying calm around the kitties.

In general, I like to make sure the cats have a place to go to get away from the dog, like a room with a baby gate across the door that the cats can get over or under, but the dog can't. It seems like sometimes the cats are less frantic if they know they can get away if they get overwhelmed. I sometimes leave a drag line on the dog too, so I have something to grab if the dog starts to chase the kitties. Mostly, I try to show the dog that the kitties really aren't that big a deal, and that being calm around them is way more fun than chasing them.

As for the general rambunctiousness, I know a lot of that is just him being a puppy, and this may sound crazy, but how much sleep is Dar getting? There was just an interesting discussion on one of the trainer lists I'm on about puppies not getting enough sleep and acting completely crazed. One trainer had several anecdotes about puppies who were driving their families up the wall until they made sure the puppies got a lot of sleep. I thought it was an interesting theory anyway, and I have seen puppies who get insane when they get overtired.

Just remember to breathe, and come here and tell us about all Dar's silly antics.

[ArtGypsy]

thank you sarah...............

I'm hoping that his puppy-curiosity for the cats doesn't mean that he will develop the prey drive for them later on down the line, once he hits maturity. He really does just want them to play. Is it hopeful that he's friendly to them now???

yeah, I've been keepin' that drag line on him, so I can grab and such.. once in awhile he gets away from me, but I am really am trying to be a diligent and caring Dar-Mommy.......

He and morton have even napped side by side.............so I'm keeping my fingers crossed....

k...........off to bed for me.!!!

thanks all..............................night night...............................

[katiek0417]

All dogs have some level of prey drive...it's simply the desire to chase, hunt, and kill...however, some dogs have more or less of it.

MOST dogs figure out that cat claws aren't a good thing, so they just avoid the cats. I actually tend to allow my cats to teach my dogs that it's unacceptable to chase them, etc.

Don't worry, it times of panic and excitement, even the best of us do the less than desirable thing during training.

[SisMorphine]

I always have my classes step on the leash and wait out a dog who is trying to jump up on them. But I wait for a sit instead of a down. I ignore the dog and say nothing, once the dog chooses on it's own to sit he gets rewarded (treats, praise, toy, whatever). If everyone in your house is diligent about doing this then you will turn Dar into a sitting machine anytime he sees two legs in front of him, which is obviously better than a jumping machine


And my mom had a similar incident to yours! She was carrying my old cat through the livingroom to put her downstairs. My cat and my old Greyhound had it out for each other. She checked, and Wally was sleeping soundly. She makes it all the way to the stairs and opened the door, but Wally was quick. He grabbed the cat's tail, the cat sunk her teeth into my mom's hand, and after an ER trip, antibiotics, and a balloon sized hand we all learned that Wally was fast and silent

[pitbullmamaliz]

When Inara was a pup I used 99% positive methods on her. That one percent when I didn't? The cats. I wanted her to learn ASAP that the cats were off-limits. My one was elderly and I didn't want him being pestered, and none of them had front claws so they couldn't defend themselves. So if Inara chased one or swiped at one she had a Come To Jesus meeting. She learned very rapidly that MY cats were off limits - if we see one outside though, she thinks it's fair game.

Today she tries to play with my one remaining cat, and as long as she's gentle and not chasing I let her. But if I see kitty kitty getting pissy pissy Inara gets checked.

Cats are just so much smaller than dogs, and even a puppy can seriously injure one in a moment of play, so I was just super cautious.

[TheRedQueen]

Good advice from everyone...but I have one question.

When you state that you're telling him "Down", do you mean...taking his feet off of you and placing them on the ground instead, or do you mean that you want him to actually lie down with his belly on the ground? If it's just a "get off of me" command/cue, you might want to tr something different, such as "OFF", so you don't confuse him when you actually want him to lie down.

We went over this repeatedly with my dad during the Thanksgiving holiday..."Dad, if you want the dogs to leave you alone and get off of your lap, say 'Off', not 'Down'"...it never really sunk in.

[KJS]

We went over this repeatedly with my dad during the Thanksgiving holiday..."Dad, if you want the dogs to leave you alone and get off of your lap, say 'Off', not 'Down'"...it never really sunk in.

I hear you and I appreciate what you are saying...every single time the dang in-laws visit we go through the same scenario ...its not rocket science...which is good because I know JS about rockets

[katiek0417]

Good advice from everyone...but I have one question.

When you state that you're telling him "Down", do you mean...taking his feet off of you and placing them on the ground instead, or do you mean that you want him to actually lie down with his belly on the ground? If it's just a "get off of me" command/cue, you might want to tr something different, such as "OFF", so you don't confuse him when you actually want him to lie down.

We went over this repeatedly with my dad during the Thanksgiving holiday..."Dad, if you want the dogs to leave you alone and get off of your lap, say 'Off', not 'Down'"...it never really sunk in.

Good point, Erin....

People are often confused when I train with my dogs b/c their commands are in Dutch...and the command for "down" is "auf" which is pronounced "off."

[ArtGypsy]

Howdy guys!!!!

I"ve been AWOL for a day....working in Lincoln and Cole had a wrestling meet in another town last night.

anyway.

I Digress.

yes. I was trying to get Dar to STOP Jumping up my leg, grabbing at the cat....he does that with me even when I don't have a cat. unless I"m standing on the leash in the kitchen **when he's tethered**, he jumps up and bits at me. Last night he ripped my good down full length coat

but, yes, I will have to learn to be more specific. and teach him stuff BEFORE he is supposed to know how to do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


sometimes I just get so busy and my hands are full, the phone is ringing , the cats are flying the kids are hungry and the dog is just outta control. **yes, this is when he should be in the crate. But in this small house, the high pitched yelping just adds to the chaos, so I try to 'keep him with me" and juggle everything else!*...

thanks for the insights, guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Jody, who did call a +reinforcement trainer yesterday, but the phone call was cut short due to the dr. calling back about my 16 yr. old's tests from Mayo Clinic......

[TheRedQueen]

Okay then, I'd work on using another word...like "off"...so you don't confuse him down the road.

I understand about being busy...I was juggling the puppy and 15 other dogs over Thanksgiving...(five of my own...one on crate rest with a torn ACL)...plus my parents, my sister and her DH and her 10 mo. baby. Fun! The puppy didn't get a lot of one-on-one time over the holidays...he got a LOT Of crate time. Otherwise I would have punted him into next week.

I always figure that they have the rest of their lives to hang out with me, and be with me...so for their own good, I crate them.

And...back to training...if he's being that persistent, I would start giving him time-outs. If he's being a twit...just scoop him up with an "Oops!" (this word is good...because it's hard to say in a mean tone) and put him in his crate...very matter of fact, almost jolly. I even will talk to them on the way..."well, look at what you've gotten yourself into...more crate time. If you'd just have chilled out...this wouldn't have happened...la la la..." Then when you have some time to play with him, take him out and wear his little butt out...tugging, chasing, retrieving games...anything to get him moving, but in an appropriate manner!

[Jenn]

Yikes, how is the lip? You've got some great advice, as usual way to go gang. I certainly hope your 16 year olds results were good news!

I think the most important thing is to set boundaries early, it has become pretty seldom but sometimes the dogs around my place still get a reminder that the cats rule. Which sometimes results in a small snout bleed.

[TheRedQueen]

In our house, cats and rats rule...anyone sticking a snout or paw into cages gets a nip from the rats and degus. Cures that problem pretty quickly. Even Fry won't stick his paw in anymore.

[KJS]

People are often confused when I train with my dogs b/c their commands are in Dutch...and the command for "down" is "auf" which is pronounced "off."

there is no such word in Dutch ...there is af...but that means finished,completed or done as in a crossword or a puzzle ..you could be thinking of German but then auf means on or in as a prefix... there is to go to the ground 'auf Grund laufen'....

if we would command our dogs in Dutch the words for off would have to become 'naar beneden gaan'

[ArtGypsy]

Okay then, I'd work on using another word...like "off"...so you don't confuse him down the road.

I understand about being busy...I was juggling the puppy and 15 other dogs over Thanksgiving...(five of my own...one on crate rest with a torn ACL)...plus my parents, my sister and her DH and her 10 mo. baby. Fun! The puppy didn't get a lot of one-on-one time over the holidays...he got a LOT Of crate time. Otherwise I would have punted him into next week.

I always figure that they have the rest of their lives to hang out with me, and be with me...so for their own good, I crate them.

And...back to training...if he's being that persistent, I would start giving him time-outs. If he's being a twit...just scoop him up with an "Oops!" (this word is good...because it's hard to say in a mean tone) and put him in his crate...very matter of fact, almost jolly. I even will talk to them on the way..."well, look at what you've gotten yourself into...more crate time. If you'd just have chilled out...this wouldn't have happened...la la la..." Then when you have some time to play with him, take him out and wear his little butt out...tugging, chasing, retrieving games...anything to get him moving, but in an appropriate manner!

Yes,,,,,,,,THANK YOU....(( I can't imagine juggling all you do....))....I had to give him a time out this morning, minutes, before I read your post. he was really hyper, had been on a walk, out twice to potty, and no matter what toy I offered him to play 'tug' with, he only wanted (insisted) on jumping up and biting my arm instead of the stuffed animal, rope, etc). the last time he grabbed my wrist way too hard and I just had to scoop him up and crate him. He settled right down..

thanks again for all your insights......

Jody

[ArtGypsy]

In our house, cats and rats rule...anyone sticking a snout or paw into cages gets a nip from the rats and degus. Cures that problem pretty quickly. Even Fry won't stick his paw in anymore.

I just wished the cats would be a bit more aggessive. They usually run, lay down or get mauled by puppy mouth. There's been a couple really 'good' swipes to puppy-snout that has done the trick.
Last night, Morton swiped him so hard, the piddle squirted out of him!

I just scooped him up and took him out............haha.......

Jody

[TheRedQueen]

In our house, cats and rats rule...anyone sticking a snout or paw into cages gets a nip from the rats and degus. Cures that problem pretty quickly. Even Fry won't stick his paw in anymore.

I just wished the cats would be a bit more aggessive. They usually run, lay down or get mauled by puppy mouth. There's been a couple really 'good' swipes to puppy-snout that has done the trick.
Last night, Morton swiped him so hard, the piddle squirted out of him!

I just scooped him up and took him out............haha.......

Jody

Mine aren't terribly aggressive...but if cornered, they will whack at noses. Fry (the male cat) is only 5-6 months old himself...so he's still trying to figure it all out himself. Both cats actually really like dogs...but they won't stand around if a dog is aggressive or coming on too strong.

Sounds like Morton can stand up for himself pretty well!