Lowering protein for "Reactive Dogs"??

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby Hoyden » April 10th, 2006, 2:12 pm

I met with a new trainer for Birdie and Saturday.

One of the things that she said is that with reactive dogs, lowering the protein content in their diets will help to control the undesired behavior.

The theory being that protein in dog food is like sugar to a child.

Now after doing some reading - I am trying to equate my concern about how Birdie won't ignore ALL dogs, but will respond to some of them to being reactive.

I did bring Birdie with me. When we came in the door - there were three covered crates with barking dogs in them to the right of the door. Birdie ignored the dogs - even when the barking escalated.

At one point, she brought out her GSD Bitch to see how Birdie would react. Birdie was interested, ignored me and went to the end of the leash. The two dogs got into a staring contest and she said "Your bitch won". Then Birdie started looking for a toy and play bowing.

She also mentioned a method called "Click to Calm" that I need to research. But I am not a fan of clicker training. I have enough issues managing my balance, putting something else in my hands isn't a good idea - I'll really look like a stumbling drunk then!

Thoughts, opinions, experiences?





Links I read through:
http://www.nwk9.com/article_reactive_dog.htm
http://www.greatcompanions.info/reactive_dogs.html
http://www.canineuniversity.com/article ... ve_12.html
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby mnp13 » April 10th, 2006, 2:18 pm

you can click with your tongue, and have nothing to handle.

facing two dogs off, for any reason, is just plain stupid IMO. What if Birdy had flipped out? what good would that have been? Minor dog reactivity can be controlled with training. does she have bull breed experience?

As for the protein, canines are meant to eat protein. That is very different than refined simple sugars which the body doesn't need. Low protein is not natural for a dog's system.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 10th, 2006, 2:22 pm

What is a good protein level to look for in kibble?
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby Hoyden » April 10th, 2006, 2:24 pm

mnp13 wrote:you can click with your tongue, and have nothing to handle.

facing two dogs off, for any reason, is just plain stupid IMO. What if Birdy had flipped out? what good would that have been? Minor dog reactivity can be controlled with training. does she have bull breed experience?

As for the protein, canines are meant to eat protein. That is very different than refined simple sugars which the body doesn't need. Low protein is not natural for a dog's system.



Actually - I use a tongue click to get her attention. I have a whole bunch of little sounds that correspond with commands - I am prone to getting pneumonia and loosing my voice, so we learned noise and hand commands too.

It wasn't facing off, more of seeing how Birdie would react to another dominant dog. Both dogs were leashed and there was about 12 feet between the dogs.

I am not sure about bully breed experience, I saw clients that were Bully owners, but always ask to sit in a class to watch the trainer with their own dog and how they work with the dogs in the class. I have a list of questions for them too - one of them being about Bully experience.

Timberwolf is 26% protein, she is recommending dog food with less than 20% protein.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby mnp13 » April 10th, 2006, 2:37 pm

Hoyden wrote:It wasn't facing off, more of seeing how Birdie would react to another dominant dog. Both dogs were leashed and there was about 12 feet between the dogs.


The two dogs got into a staring contest and she said "Your bitch won".


That is facing off.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 10th, 2006, 2:42 pm

Less than 20% protein? Aren't most kibbles 22% or higher?
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby mnp13 » April 10th, 2006, 2:43 pm

I had Ruby on EVO, and trust me, there was no energy increase.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Hoyden » April 10th, 2006, 2:47 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Hoyden wrote:It wasn't facing off, more of seeing how Birdie would react to another dominant dog. Both dogs were leashed and there was about 12 feet between the dogs.


The two dogs got into a staring contest and she said "Your bitch won".


That is facing off.


Gotcha. How should she have evaluated how Birdie would react to another dog on a lead?

If it wasn't sleeting, we could have gone outside and walked by each other, but it was nasty ans slippery out.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby mnp13 » April 10th, 2006, 2:50 pm

Hoyden wrote:Gotcha. How should she have evaluated how Birdie would react to another dog on a lead?


Let them approach each other, walk around the room together, etc. You don't have to square them off against each other. Had she flipped out it would have done nothing positive.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Hoyden » April 10th, 2006, 2:58 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Hoyden wrote:Gotcha. How should she have evaluated how Birdie would react to another dog on a lead?


Let them approach each other, walk around the room together, etc. You don't have to square them off against each other. Had she flipped out it would have done nothing positive.


I think she was worried about me walking around though- I wobble pretty badly.

I'm still wondering about this reactive business.

Birdie is stubborn and beligerent at times, but not what I would consider reactive after spending hours reading about it. She is pretty calm and collected, but she just doesn't ignore other dogs the way I want her to and the way she should.

Had she evaluated Petey and said he was reactive, I would have agreed. Petey is like a hyper active little kid and he is 9 years old.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby dogcrazyjen » April 10th, 2006, 4:56 pm

The trainer could have walked her dog in a large circle with her dog on the outside and yours standing still in the middle. Then change directions, so her dog is on the inside, walking around you in a large circle. If all goes well, then approach so her dog's side is facing your dog (on a diagonal). All this time you are just sitting with your dog, rewarding for calmness. If you are that wobbly, she should have tethered your dog (with you standing next to her) and she and her dog walk in large half circles around yours. What would have happened if she had lunged, could you have handled it?

Your bitch won? No one 'wins' unless it is a fight. The two worked out a standing without any fuss, so both 'won'.
dogcrazyjen
Devoutly Bully
 
Posts: 922
Location: FingerLakes NY

Postby SisMorphine » April 11th, 2006, 12:38 pm

It sounds like a very odd situation that the trainer had there. I agree that the trainer facing off the dogs was . . . weird. Very weird. And not at ALL helpful for a dog who is reactive with other dogs. I am also unfamiliar with "click to calm" and have had no good experiences with clicker training myself. I like to keep myself as involved with the training as possible, and I find clicker training to take the human aspect that much further away from it.

But the protein thing, which I've heard a lot, always gets me. Isn't protein meat? Aren't dogs carnivores? So if you're putting your dog on a low-protein diet you're giving them less meat (what they thrive on) and more filler (what they cannot use) simply in the name of calming them down?

I would use Rescue Remedy or Peace and Calming (both natural flower essences) before I would start having my dog eat Twinkies all day to keep him lazy.

I would definitely seek the opinion of another trainer, preferably one who has experience in how to handle pit bulls, or other reactive dogs, in public situations.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9231

Postby Hoyden » April 11th, 2006, 12:53 pm

And here is the one thing I left out purposely because I wanted other peoples opinions before I inserted my emotions.

Birdie wasn't comfortable at this place and acted a bit anxious. She actually whined and paced. She wasn't interested in the trainer either - which is unusual for her too.

I wasn't too comfortable either, just a nagging feeling that I couldn't describe.

So that being said - I think I am going to continue looking. This is not a good fit for us.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!

Postby Patch O' Pits » April 11th, 2006, 1:01 pm

Hoyden wrote:And here is the one thing I left out purposely because I wanted other peoples opinions before I inserted my emotions.

Birdie wasn't comfortable at this place and acted a bit anxious. She actually whined and paced. She wasn't interested in the trainer either - which is unusual for her too.

I wasn't too comfortable either, just a nagging feeling that I couldn't describe.

So that being said - I think I am going to continue looking. This is not a good fit for us.


I think that is best! You should be comfortable with the trainer


I don't agree with the way the dog was tested either
Patch O' Pits Pursuit-O-Perfection

Run Hard at the Rainbow Bridge My Angel Sock-M! I Love You Baby Girl! Now that your Mom Starlit is up there too, please help her learn the ropes, love and keep her company until I can see you both again. Starlit I love you!
http://i14.tinypic.com/2a8q345.jpg
User avatar
Patch O' Pits
Welcome Wagger
 
Posts: 4426
Location: Northeastern, USA

Postby mnp13 » April 11th, 2006, 1:13 pm

Hoyden wrote:I wasn't too comfortable either, just a nagging feeling that I couldn't describe.


Go with your gut. Especially with something like this.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17232
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby Hoyden » April 11th, 2006, 1:19 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Hoyden wrote:I wasn't too comfortable either, just a nagging feeling that I couldn't describe.


Go with your gut. Especially with something like this.


I will -

Thanks for pointing out something that I should have obviously seen. I was giving the trainer the benefit of the doubt because of my disability - but it could have been handled differently.
Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men ~ General George S. Patton, Jr.

She taking all the stars down from her sky to hang them up someplace new, where there's better weather and the sky's a different blue. ~ Autumn Fields
User avatar
Hoyden
Collar Queen
 
Posts: 3342
Location: Hot, Hot Texas, Baby!


Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron