Training a Dog Off-leash Manners

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby kymn25 » March 30th, 2006, 7:29 pm

I have found out the hard way that Sam is a runner. He can't seem to contain himself the 5 ft from the Front door to the Car. And then once he's running, he seems to think it is a game of "catch me if you can". He completely disregards all comands, and as he's running he looks back at me with a devilish grin :devilWink: as if to say, "good luck catchin' me lady" :neener: :kissButt:

I would like to train him NOT to do this. The disregard for commands is really the big issue but the lookin' back thing is really really irritating :pissed:

Any idea's :|
Pit Bulls know they are THE face of extinction. All that remains is where they make their final stand. Say NO to BSL!

http://www.Ucarerescue.net
kymn25
Snot Nose Bully Pup
 
Posts: 157
Location: Beaverton Oregon

Postby DemoDick » March 30th, 2006, 7:30 pm

Why not use a leash?

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby kymn25 » March 30th, 2006, 7:36 pm

I use a leash now, but I still feel I need teach him not to do this (in a controlled environment)! I wouldn't feel right adopting him out with a problem like this. It spells trouble. It seems to be a outside issue. When we are inside he listens and does what he's told (well for the most part). The minute he steps outside he's a almost uncontrollable. I do not have these issues with my other dogs
Pit Bulls know they are THE face of extinction. All that remains is where they make their final stand. Say NO to BSL!

http://www.Ucarerescue.net
kymn25
Snot Nose Bully Pup
 
Posts: 157
Location: Beaverton Oregon

Postby DemoDick » March 31st, 2006, 12:41 am

Honestly, true off-leash control in a dog like the one you are describing only comes as a result of good training. Since it doesn't sound like you have the time to really put that kind of control on the dog, I wouldn't make it a goal.

As long as potential new owners know that the dog will run given the chance there shouldn't be a problem. Actually, I think it's a bad idea to let any dog run around off-leash (except for in a training situation), especially in a new home environment.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby ellie@ny » March 31st, 2006, 8:25 am

""The minute he steps outside he's a almost uncontrollable.""
If you know that why are you let him do? :| He's gonna get hit by a car one day,or get loose!Until a dog not ready to be off leash,don't let him!Start obedience with him,it can save his life.
Ellie
----------------------------------------
"Winners aren't born...they're made.And they're made just like anything else...through hard work.That's the price we'll have to pay to achive that goal."
User avatar
ellie@ny
Full of Bully
 
Posts: 1979
Location: NY

Postby dogcrazyjen » March 31st, 2006, 9:43 am

Two words for you- long line. It worked on Tess.
dogcrazyjen
Devoutly Bully
 
Posts: 922
Location: FingerLakes NY

Postby SisMorphine » March 31st, 2006, 9:49 am

Do you take him for walks regularly or does he just hang out in the backyard playing? The fact that the rest of the outside world is new and interesting to him could be part of the issue. Take him on more walks, and take him random places for walks. Change your route often or just throw him in the car and bring him to another neighborhood, or park, or beach, and walk him there. It helps to make the rest of the world not so novel. But keep him on a leash at all times, he needs to know that when he's out you're in control, you decide where you guys walk and where you don't walk.
ETA:
Also once he's used to a certain place, say a park or a certain walking route, then work on commands with him while there. Again, on leash commands only, feel free to bring a long line along to the park, but never offleash.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9231

Postby dogcrazyjen » March 31st, 2006, 10:12 am

I have had Tess since August. I just now am able to take her off leash in our own yard minus a frisbee (from day one we could take her off leash if we were playing frisbee and she would not run, she was so intent on the game).

The first few times I had her off leash just walking in the yard, and she took a look at me, flipped me the bird, and off she went. Needless to say, I got wise real quick and she has been on leash ever since. We worked recalls on a 50 foot line for a long time, we worked recalls during frisbee games. It took months to build a relationship with her that made her WANT to be with me. Just yesterday I took her off leash outside, and she stayed right with me. I still do not trust her for a long walk, but in our familiar yard, she is ready to start off lead training in small spurts (2-3 minutes). This is a slow process, and one that as a rescuer you are going to have a harder time with, as I assume you are staying a little aloof to protect yourself and the dog from inevitable separation. It wasn't until I decided to keep Tess for good that we were able to really bond in a way that allowed me to start trusting her.

Anyhow, go to the pet store and get a 50 foot lead, and start doing recalls everywhere. Your dog sounds normal to me, the new family is just going to have to be willing to really work on this behavior.

Anyhoo, my 2 cents worth!
dogcrazyjen
Devoutly Bully
 
Posts: 922
Location: FingerLakes NY

Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 12:20 pm

I hate to hijack someones thread, but I am glad someone asked about this since today was the first time other than at training that I took rocky to a field where he can see alot of activity. (no other dogs though). He too has trouble with wanting to be with me. He would sit and stay for a little but sometimes he would just take off. Or I would call come and he would apear he was on his way but then run right past. He got clothes lined several times. I am glad to hear that if I continue this training he will get better. My trainer sugested practicing hiding behind a tree or running away. But he could care less. He would care if I went in the car and drove away. But out in the open he does not seem to be concerned about me. We got him from a shelter at 4 months old he is now almost 9 mos. He had no recall what so ever. He has been in obedience training since 4 mos.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby kymn25 » March 31st, 2006, 12:43 pm

DemoDick wrote: Actually, I think it's a bad idea to let any dog run around off-leash (except for in a training situation), especially in a new home environment. Demo Dick



So letting him run around in a fenced yard is a bad idea?
Pit Bulls know they are THE face of extinction. All that remains is where they make their final stand. Say NO to BSL!

http://www.Ucarerescue.net
kymn25
Snot Nose Bully Pup
 
Posts: 157
Location: Beaverton Oregon

Postby cheekymunkee » March 31st, 2006, 12:48 pm

That's different, you didn't say the dog was in a fenced area. Your post reads as if you are letting him off leash with no fence. I taught mine recall using treats. If they decide they would rather run around than come in when I want them too, all I do is yell COOKIE and they come running.............most of the time.
There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.

Debby
User avatar
cheekymunkee
I Have Your Grass
 
Posts: 28540
Location: Dallas

Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 12:59 pm

We do the same thing when in the yard. Yell want a treat or "cheese doodle" if I have any. He loves doodles
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby DemoDick » March 31st, 2006, 1:04 pm

So letting him run around in a fenced yard is a bad idea?


It depends on what you expect from the dog. Personally, I do not give a new dog any off-leash time at all. I want the dog to understand that I dictate any and all behaviors that he does. When the dog shows me what I want to see I will start giving him some freedom. But I'm different than most people and so are my expectations. I want a high level of precision obedience and most people don't. They just want a dog with okay manners. There's nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy.

If you are okay with your dog running around the yard off-leash then go ahead. Cheekymunkee already addressed the other point above. If you want the dog to accompany you to the car where there is no enclosure, then I would recommend a leash. My dog has pretty good off leash obedience but I don't rely on it for absolute control, especially when he could bolt after another dog or squirrel and run into a dangerous situation (like traffic).

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 1:14 pm

This is interesting. I would like to see better obedience on top of good manners. Demo- So just like NILIF in the house you use the same for outside? Im feeling ignored outside as well as in our training class. He is an explorer. I may like to do agility in the future. My dad is heavily involved so I have great opportunities. THat oportunity means Rocky will be in an open area on many acres. I think he would stay around because of the other dogs. But he definately needs to pay more attention to staying and not exploring and ignoring.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby DemoDick » March 31st, 2006, 1:38 pm

All of what follows is stolen directly from Chris Fraize. It's an old idea but he puts it into terms that are very understandable.

This is interesting. I would like to see better obedience on top of good manners. Demo- So just like NILIF in the house you use the same for outside?


Basically, yes. Instead of calling it NILIF I just call it "work". What are the things your dog likes? Mine likes tug, food, and verbal/physical praise. If he wants those things he has to earn them though work. Want a tug bite? Earn it though obedience. Want a meal? Earn it though obedience. Want me to pet you? Earn it... I don't pay the dog without making him earn it first. And he doesn't earn it by offering behaviors that I didn't ask for. If I command a down then he won't get paid if he sits. Would you work hard at your job if you got a paycheck no matter what? So why should you expect your dog to do what you want when he knows he's going to get paid anyway?

Pretty soon the dog learns that (1) all good things come from me and (2) good things only come with work. This creates a dog that lives to work.

Im feeling ignored outside as well as in our training class.


Have you truly motivated the dog to want to pay attention to you? If so, do you allow the dog to choose to ignore you without consequences? If either of these can be answered "yes", then the dog is going to ignore you whenever he wants.

I motivate the hell out of the dog to want to pay attention to me. However, sooner or later he's going to decide there's something more fun out there than what Dad has to offer. That's when a correction comes into play. As soon as the dog gets it right, he gets a little paycheck (but not the whole thing). Basically I string him along until the end of the session and when he gives me what I want he gets the big check.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 1:47 pm

what type of correction for ignoring?
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Postby kymn25 » March 31st, 2006, 2:02 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:That's different, you didn't say the dog was in a fenced area. Your post reads as if you are letting him off leash with no fence. I taught mine recall using treats. If they decide they would rather run around than come in when I want them too, all I do is yell COOKIE and they come running.............most of the time.



My bad... I was in a hurry when I wrote this.

He's gotten away from me twice going to the car. Once when the leash broke. The other was when one of my other dogs was jumping into my SUV and slipped... as I was catching her Sams leash came out of my hands. Both time he just took off and the race was on.
Pit Bulls know they are THE face of extinction. All that remains is where they make their final stand. Say NO to BSL!

http://www.Ucarerescue.net
kymn25
Snot Nose Bully Pup
 
Posts: 157
Location: Beaverton Oregon

Postby Malli » March 31st, 2006, 2:05 pm

I was considering re-inforcing some off-leash (in safe situations) with Oscar and a food reward. Not a lure, a reward. As in, he doesn't know I have treats with me and I bring one out if I give the come command and he does.

He has previously been terrible off-leash except for when we are fetching.

thoughts?

Malli
User avatar
Malli
E-I-E-I-O!
 
Posts: 6341
Location: CANADA EH?

Postby SisMorphine » March 31st, 2006, 2:19 pm

houlabulla? wrote:what type of correction for ignoring?

If I had corrected Wally for ignoring when we took our first obedience class (you know, the one when he stared at the door, nose dripping, the whole time) I would have ended up with a useless dog.

It really does depend on the dog's attitude/temperment. I simply had to wait for Wally to come around, and now he is SO much better at obedience and does not ignore me (if he does he gets the "angry sound" and he comes running to me, apologetically smiling).
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9231

Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 2:24 pm

Ok thanks, I know I have to work on it. I just did not know what to do if I call and he runs past me what would the correction be for that. I have just been pulling him to me. Damb it hurts when they get to the end of the leash. Took only a couple of times for me to learn to have my foot ready. I guess I better go back to the start short stay and reel him directly to me.
User avatar
rockermom
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1085

Next

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users