Resource Guarding

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Postby pLaurent » March 30th, 2006, 6:56 pm

If you have a dog that growls when you get near his food, then hand feed.


Ah, okay. By "the dog doesn't eat", I assumed you meant he..well, doesn't eat! :wink:

If your dog is growling at you to protect it's food, the dog doesn't eat. Simple as that. Growls over toys, the dog doesn't get toys
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Postby satanscheerleader » March 30th, 2006, 7:39 pm

Personally, I would not put up with a dog that resource guards anything from a human pack member. As far as I'm concerned that is just all around crap temperment.
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Postby a-bull » March 30th, 2006, 7:40 pm

Marinepits wrote:
a-bull wrote:My female is extremely dominant and I have encountered all of the above problems with her taking away toys, hoarding, etc. It takes a ton of time, working with them and their toys together, and giving commands.

I can now leave out a bucket of toys and although she will sometimes pull a toy from my other guy 'just because she can,' I respond to that behavior by getting another of the same toy and playing with both dogs.


Same thing works for me here -- Mac is very possessive of his toys, so we have multiples of every toy that survives destruction.


Isn't that funny? It works, though, for whatever reason.

My vet and my girl's first trainer said they've never come across a dog as strong as my girl, and yet she is so damn pliable if you apply the right approach. It's fun to see her evolve. :)
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Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 12:27 pm

satanscheerleader wrote:Personally, I would not put up with a dog that resource guards anything from a human pack member. As far as I'm concerned that is just all around crap temperment.

What about a dead animal in their mouth that you need to remove. Like road kill for example.
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Postby mnp13 » March 31st, 2006, 1:16 pm

pLaurent wrote:
If you have a dog that growls when you get near his food, then hand feed.


Ah, okay. By "the dog doesn't eat", I assumed you meant he..well, doesn't eat! :wink:

If your dog is growling at you to protect it's food, the dog doesn't eat. Simple as that. Growls over toys, the dog doesn't get toys


Uh... can't you just read my mind??? that would make things easier lol

For example, if you feed the dog in the crate, you give it one piece of food. If the dog growls, you leave and take the rest of the food with you. Come back a little while later. Give a piece of food, etc. Growl = person with food leaves. Don't make a big deal out of it, just calmly leave. there is no 'guarding' here because he doesn't have anything to guard.

So... he eats, but not the same as a dish of food for dinner....
Last edited by mnp13 on March 31st, 2006, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mnp13 » March 31st, 2006, 1:19 pm

houlabulla? wrote:
satanscheerleader wrote:Personally, I would not put up with a dog that resource guards anything from a human pack member. As far as I'm concerned that is just all around crap temperment.

What about a dead animal in their mouth that you need to remove. Like road kill for example.


weeeeelllllll.... don't let them eat roadkill :wink:

When Ruby grabs something off of the ground that she's not supposed to have, I grab her head, grab her lower jaw and shake her head until whatever she has falls out of her mouth. She doesn't really appreciate that, so she usually drops whatever she has when I tell her to.
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Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 1:31 pm

Of course I dont want to let him eat dead crap but sometimes they find it right?
Its easy to grab him and do that on leash.
What about off. Has not happened yet but Im gusssing if he finds some small furry in the yard I aint gonna be cathing him to easy. I think he will definately run away and the closer I get the faster he will gobble and swallow.
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Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 1:35 pm

mnp13 wrote: weeeeelllllll.... don't let them eat roadkill :wink When Ruby grabs something off of the ground that she's not supposed to have, I grab her head, grab her lower jaw and shake her head until whatever she has falls out of her mouth. She doesn't really appreciate that, so she usually drops whatever she has when I tell her to.


Do you reward her when she drops it? Like with food or anything? I'm gussing thats what you are supose to do. But treats are not always available.
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Postby Maryellen » March 31st, 2006, 1:38 pm

i taught mine the MINE command., meaning, if i say its MINE give it up.. they have caught chipmunks, groundhogs and rabbits in the fenced in yard, i walk over and say MINE and take it right out of their mouths. i started out with stuff in the house, and worked my way up.. after i took things i praised them for giving it to me.. if the dogs take something in the house that they are not supposed to i use the MINE command too. i taught them that MINE means that it belongs to me and me only, and to give it to me when i ask..
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Postby Malli » March 31st, 2006, 1:40 pm

Of course I dont want to let him eat dead crap but sometimes they find it right?
Its easy to grab him and do that on leash.
What about off. Has not happened yet but Im gusssing if he finds some small furry in the yard I aint gonna be cathing him to easy. I think he will definately run away and the closer I get the faster he will gobble and swallow.


I think thats a whole other subject, or is it?

I personally expect that I can take anything, ANYTHING (roadkill or whatever ) from my dogs mouth, and I do. I would never accept a growl or aggressive behavior towards me over anything. I do what Michelle does, I see him grab something, I reach down, pry his mouth open, and hold it open until whatever it was comes out, then we usually take a moment to look at what it was, so he knows that I wasn't taking it to take it, I was taking it because its gross, and neither of us want it.
He will run sometimes. I think the initial mistake I made was throwing it away, so he started thinking that I wanted it and it was competition.

If we both leave it behind on the ground he'll see its no good :|

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Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 1:44 pm

Yukkkk We have lots of chipmonks. THis is what to look forward to in the warm weather. Gross.
I have been using "GIVE" so far its been sticks, mulch and leaves.
maryellen-Although yesterday on a walk ironically, he found a dead smooshed dried up for a year half of frog. I said leave it and he dropped it. Was not expecting that. Guess it did not taste too good.
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Postby Maryellen » March 31st, 2006, 1:47 pm

did you praise him and throw him a party for listening?
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Postby rockermom » March 31st, 2006, 2:02 pm

Probably not as much as I should have. I was so busy trying to figure out what he dropped. And I was walking and talking with a friend. Next time I will not worry about looking like a fool on the street.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 31st, 2006, 2:04 pm

I just open their mouths, reach in & take whatever it is they have that they are not supposed to. Munkee usually takes this opportunity to try to play tug with whatever I am trying to get from him. I've never had much of a problem with any of them doing it since I am in their face when they are eating from the time they come to my house. Ollie (non-pittie) made the mistake of growling at me at her food bowl once. I threw such a fit she has never done that again. Plus I picked up her food bowl & she went without. They ALL know, when momma gets loud.....they have screwed up royally.
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Postby SisMorphine » March 31st, 2006, 2:06 pm

Malli wrote:so, what is the difference between resource guarding and dominance related aggression? Is it the same definition for different terms?

I find "dominance guarding" to be more of a correction from one dog to another than actual guarding (it should NEVER be from dog to human as they should not be challenging you for dominance). There are some dogs that can walk past Wally when he's eating, even sniff his face, and he will not react, will just continue on eating. Even though it is a high value meal (raw chicken quarters) he will not react because he does not find the dog a threat to his dominance (this has only been tested with dogs who have been fed raw from 8 weeks up, and who have no food aggression themselves, with two people present just in case). But any dog who either threatens Wally's dominance or who is a pushy puppy who doesn't know their place, he WILL correct. He will correct over little things (stuffed toy, couch) and I would assume over high value items (though this has not been tested). He has never, and will never, put a hole in a dog, but he does correct heavily. He is an amazing example of a truly dominant dog who is not aggressive. His dominance has actually put a dog aggressive male Rottie at ease because he walks in and says "I'm in charge, deal with it and I won't bother you." It is an absolutely amazing thing to watch.

So I do believe that dominance guarding is very different from actual resource guarding. It's the difference between the dog saying "Listen, you rude dog, get out of my face while I eat" and "THIS IS MINE GET THE EF AWAY BEFORE I EAT YOU ALIVE!"

It takes knowing your dog very well and knowing the basics of canine behavior, or being an experience trainer, to be able to distinguish between the two, IMHO.
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Postby mnp13 » March 31st, 2006, 4:01 pm

houlabulla? wrote:
mnp13 wrote: weeeeelllllll.... don't let them eat roadkill :wink When Ruby grabs something off of the ground that she's not supposed to have, I grab her head, grab her lower jaw and shake her head until whatever she has falls out of her mouth. She doesn't really appreciate that, so she usually drops whatever she has when I tell her to.


Do you reward her when she drops it? Like with food or anything? I'm gussing thats what you are supose to do. But treats are not always available.


No, not really. This one is like 'sit' for us. We don't throw a party when she sits to go out because it is a long established behavior. When she looks at something and I say 'fooey' she is supposed to ignore it. If she snarfs it up anyway, she gets the grab and shake. She hates the grab and shake so that usually takes care of the problem ahead of time.

Now, yes, she has managed to gobble up the occasional thing, like last year when she ate somthing long dead and spent the night projectile vomiting in a hotel room. (I think the final count was 7). But by and large, she knows it's just easier to drop things when she's told to.
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Postby satanscheerleader » March 31st, 2006, 6:27 pm

houlabulla? wrote:
satanscheerleader wrote:Personally, I would not put up with a dog that resource guards anything from a human pack member. As far as I'm concerned that is just all around crap temperment.

What about a dead animal in their mouth that you need to remove. Like road kill for example.


That is the last comment I expected! lol That just made my morning. :D Number one, my dogs know the "Leave it!" command so I would use that instead of grabbing the rotten carcass but I have all confidence that if I so chose, I could grab it out of their mouths and they would just let me take it. Just last night at her meet and greet, Leah, of course deciding to make a good impression grabbed my daughters quarter of a sandwich off the table and my hand was down her throat faster than she could swallow it and out it came. No growl, just a lowered head of shame that she got caught and lost her prize! lol If a dog is resource guarding either the owner needs to look really hard at their ability to handle dogs or a damn good look at the dog itself. I am very confident in my ability to handle dogs so the way I see it, if one of them is resource guarding to a human family member in this household, something is wrong with their temperment.
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Postby Marinepits » March 31st, 2006, 6:34 pm

Malli wrote:
Of course I dont want to let him eat dead crap but sometimes they find it right?
Its easy to grab him and do that on leash.
What about off. Has not happened yet but Im gusssing if he finds some small furry in the yard I aint gonna be cathing him to easy. I think he will definately run away and the closer I get the faster he will gobble and swallow.


I think thats a whole other subject, or is it?

I personally expect that I can take anything, ANYTHING (roadkill or whatever ) from my dogs mouth, and I do. I would never accept a growl or aggressive behavior towards me over anything. I do what Michelle does, I see him grab something, I reach down, pry his mouth open, and hold it open until whatever it was comes out, then we usually take a moment to look at what it was, so he knows that I wasn't taking it to take it, I was taking it because its gross, and neither of us want it.He will run sometimes. I think the initial mistake I made was throwing it away, so he started thinking that I wanted it and it was competition.

If we both leave it behind on the ground he'll see its no good :|

Malli
[/quote]

That's my favorite trick to remove "unwanted items" from one of their mouths!
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Postby a-bull » March 31st, 2006, 6:53 pm

Work on "leave it" to prevent the carcass scarf-up, and "drop-it" if the carcass gets scarfed up anyways.

"Leave it" is such a handy command, and also works well for dogs that like to scarf-up feces.
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Postby a-bull » March 31st, 2006, 6:58 pm

mnp13 wrote:
pLaurent wrote:
If you have a dog that growls when you get near his food, then hand feed.


Ah, okay. By "the dog doesn't eat", I assumed you meant he..well, doesn't eat! :wink:

If your dog is growling at you to protect it's food, the dog doesn't eat. Simple as that. Growls over toys, the dog doesn't get toys


Uh... can't you just read my mind???

For example, if you feed the dog in the crate, you give it one piece of food. If the dog growls, you leave and take the rest of the food with you. Come back a little while later. Give a piece of food, etc. Growl = person with food leaves. Don't make a big deal out of it, just calmly leave. there is no 'guarding' here because he doesn't have anything to guard.

So... he eats, but not the same as a dish of food for dinner....


If this worked for you, that's pretty cool, but you have to be careful, some dogs would take your retreating after they growl as victory and you could be reinforcing the behavior, (although it doesn't sound like that was the case with your dog).
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