Training for helping and or service dog

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby gayrghts » October 12th, 2007, 6:08 pm

On October 12 2007, 1:08 PM, TheRedQueen wrote:Does he help balance you while you're walking with him? Or could he, if you have a stiff handle on a harness? Basically using him instead of the cane, or with the cane. That's a good skill. :) Helping you up in bed is also a good task.

I asked a friend who is also an AD trainer...and she said that she'd view 1. (picking up dropped objects) AND 3. (picking up your cane) as one task.

Though she also says that the the documents and such do not spell out what they are looking for (task, skill, etc). So confusing! ;)


He probably could help me balance while walking, i've never tried a stiff handle.... and harness....
He helps me get up out of bed... and sometimes i use him to pull up in bed... however this week we've been keeping his chain choke collar on him because he was getting away with murder and giving me the middle finger when i gave a command, ie sit.... (i'll do it when i want to, after you tell me 4 x) so with the training collar on hiim, and a few quick corrections that problem got nipped in the bud and he's sitting before i finish the word... :)
BUT I won't use that collar to pull myself up...

He also as helped me to balance when i've fallen and needed a support to get up.... not full weight on him but a balance support.

After i get him trained to the level i think he's sutiable for "work" (not my job lol i could never have him here at work) vs just training etc.... I know i want to get him his TT test.... but what other testing and or documentation should i work on?
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby TheRedQueen » October 13th, 2007, 12:21 am

He probably could help me balance while walking, i've never tried a stiff handle.... and harness....


Here are some links to SD harnesses...they're not cheap, by any means. We have a guy in town here that works on leather stuff for horses, and he makes 'em cheaper for us, and uses a design from a harness that the organization bought a long time ago.

Good equipment page...
http://www.petsandpeople.org/resource.htm

Harness sites
http://www.ldsleather.com/supportharnesses.html

http://www.circle-e.net/dog_harness.htm

http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.asp ... ProdID=556

He also as helped me to balance when i've fallen and needed a support to get up.... not full weight on him but a balance support.


Have you taught him to brace? If you teach him to brace (stiffen up and remain still) on a stand or sit, he can help with pulling up or getting up. Make sure to have your hands over his shoulder blades and hip if using him to get up from a chair or the ground...so you're not pushing on his back. Also, being trained to brace, means that he won't move out from under you while you're using him. A good SD won't move away to solicit attention from a passerby while you're trying to get up. We had a former SD get hurt (years ago, before my time)...she was bracing her handler in a public restroom and the toilet fell away from the wall and hit the dog. (cracked a vertebrae) But that dog kept bracing.

Here are pics of Mary-Margaret and Murphy, one of our Fidos teams. (I took these pics of them) He's a big standard poodle, and is heavy and strong enough to bear her weight.

http://www.fidosforfreedom.org/assist-d ... -brace.php

As for training, a CGC wouldn't hurt, or a TT or Therapy dog test...but none are necessary. I'd be happier with a dog that can score high on the ADI public access test...

http://www.adionline.org/publicaccess.html

not my job LOL i could never have him here at work


Why not? A trained SD can go anywhere (and should go anywhere that he/she might be needed. A boss or co-worker cannot refuse you the right to have the dog in there. They can make your life a living hell (like John just said), and they can fire you for something else, but not for having an AD.

I know i want to get him his TT test.... but what other testing and or documentation should i work on?


There is no national certification, and dont' be fooled by online programs...($300 for a "certificate" saying your dog is a SD). Our organization only certifies our own dogs, and most groups are like that. You might be able to find a trainer willing to test him on the ADI PAT (Public Access Test)...but that's iffy. Work on training, and do as much as you can...CGC, TT, Therapy dog testing, etc. That's the best advice I have.

If you can find an AD trainer willing to work with you...(I do this in my area)...that's the best route. Or find a group of self trained AD owners. :)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby gayrghts » October 13th, 2007, 2:00 am

I work as a nurse, in a facility for teens with behavioral issues....

About 5 yrs ago, shortly after i was hired.... there was an unfortunate incident, involving a certified therapy dog and an 18 yr old girl.

It was badly handled.... this church group was allowed to come, and do a bible study, with free pizza... they brought a certified therapy dog, although all the dog did was circulate among the kids (i'm not saying that's not therapeutic.... however they would let it go off leash)

So... picture 40 teens, in a basement room, with a pentecostal type preacher, and loud christian rock music, and pizza, and this dog without a handler attached....

This teen went up behind the dog.... and hugged the dog and burried her face in his ruff he was an alaskan type dog.

He was startled.... paniced....turned and bit her badly about the face... she almost lost her eyelid....

The agency has not allowed another dog on property since....

If i told them i needed a AD to help me.... they'd say that i could no longer meet the needs of my job and therefore i did not have a job.
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby TheRedQueen » October 13th, 2007, 3:07 am

Can I pass this on to someone else? We've had issues like this in the past, and I'd like to get some other's take on it.

You're not the first person to hear this...we recently had a Hearing Dog client go through the same issues...many of the HD clients do, for some reason...I guess it seems easier to accept a dog helping someone in a wheelchair. :cheeky3:

One of our previous HD clients refused for years to get a dog...he said that he didn't want the hassle, that he didn't need one, and that he was fine without one...and his workplace agreed. Then one day the fire alarm went off in the building. He was in the bathroom, and did not hear the alarm, nor did he see the lights flashing or people leaving. He came out into the hallway to find an entire government agency empty. The first week with his dog, they had a fire alarm, and he got out safely because of his dog. He was one that thought they never needed a dog.

Legally, they can't deny you access with an AD...but yeah, they can come up with some other trumped-up excuse for why you can't work there anymore. What seems to help with cases like this, for our group, is to educate. Have a group that trains dogs like this come in and do a demo. Tell them what the dog would do for you, and how it could help...(you'd get more work done because you wouldn't be in pain because you wouldn't have to bend over to pick up stuff all day...that kind of thing). You could also find a lawyer who works with disability rights, and really fight it. (just options)

The situation you are describing was badly handled by everyone involved...esp. the TD handler...and that really sucks for you, and all types of working dogs. :rant2:
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby gayrghts » October 13th, 2007, 3:22 am

On October 13 2007, 2:07 AM, TheRedQueen wrote:Can I pass this on to someone else? We've had issues like this in the past, and I'd like to get some other's take on it.

You're not the first person to hear this...we recently had a Hearing Dog client go through the same issues...many of the HD clients do, for some reason...I guess it seems easier to accept a dog helping someone in a wheelchair. :cheeky3:

One of our previous HD clients refused for years to get a dog...he said that he didn't want the hassle, that he didn't need one, and that he was fine without one...and his workplace agreed. Then one day the fire alarm went off in the building. He was in the bathroom, and did not hear the alarm, nor did he see the lights flashing or people leaving. He came out into the hallway to find an entire government agency empty. The first week with his dog, they had a fire alarm, and he got out safely because of his dog. He was one that thought they never needed a dog.

Legally, they can't deny you access with an AD...but yeah, they can come up with some other trumped-up excuse for why you can't work there anymore. What seems to help with cases like this, for our group, is to educate. Have a group that trains dogs like this come in and do a demo. Tell them what the dog would do for you, and how it could help...(you'd get more work done because you wouldn't be in pain because you wouldn't have to bend over to pick up stuff all day...that kind of thing). You could also find a lawyer who works with disability rights, and really fight it. (just options)

The situation you are describing was badly handled by everyone involved...esp. the TD handler...and that really sucks for you, and all types of working dogs. :rant2:


Sure you can.... yeah they can come up with trumped up excuses...

I have a hard time walking up 2 flights of stairs... but i'm expected to do it when we have trainings....
I wanted to look into getting the nurses a golf cart type thing.... so that it would be easier to respond to situations quickly....with less pain etc.
I was told no, becuse the kids might take off on it...

One week at work, i put my cane next to me at the sink to wash my hands in the kitchen, the kids were around.... one took it and thru it down an embankment into a wooded area.... staff and kids could not find it... i am able to walk, albeit in pain without my cane, but...not easily...
i went and bought a new one the next am.. and work woudl not reimburse me for it because they found my old one that afternoon.

I love the job, but there are some things that are not good there... as you can see.
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby TheRedQueen » October 13th, 2007, 3:31 am

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby TheRedQueen » October 15th, 2007, 10:18 am

"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby gayrghts » October 23rd, 2007, 7:53 pm

FYI Harley's doing well when he wants to.... however

note to self : don't give him keys with the key remote on it.... and not expect the car alarm to go off.... :)

He's also on occasion refusing to do things.... and when he refuses and i keep asking for it.... he starts acting like he's in trouble and scared....

What do i do then?

btw things that he's done before....
things like picking up a tee shirt, or a bowl and giving it to me....
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby valliesong » December 4th, 2007, 10:45 pm

It has been a loooooooong time since I posted here, but marinepits sent me over from UCare because I had some questions on service dogs.

I found everything here very helpful, but I was wondering, how does it change things when you introduce a service dog to a household that has pet dogs? Particularly a bully and mix who can be same-sex aggressive and must be crate-and-rotated with each other. They are both males and get along with my female foxhound, but... Do you think it could work?

I'd also like to speak with TheRedQueen individually about what I'd like to train the dog for, if you wouldn't mind PM-ing or emailing me at valliesong @ yahoo.com (remove spaces).
User avatar
valliesong
Just Whelped
 
Posts: 22
Location: Leesport, PA

Postby gayrghts » December 13th, 2007, 1:21 am

I have a new question... :)

Harley is doing great at getting things for me... but......

When i say "get the ____ "

He gets everything possible that he can see and knows is ok to "get" till he gets the right thing....

He needs to learn... the difference between

Sock
Sneaker
Bottle
Phone

He knows bowl (food bowl) and he knows toy which is anything he's got that he plays with, ie that's his...

I dont' want to discourage him from bringing things to me... but at this point he's got to start learning what things are called...

we do intermittant treats... right now if he brings me a bottle when i ask for sock... i've tried refusing to take it, but he just keeps trying to give it to me... till i take it... so i take it, put it down and then say... get me sock, he'll go get something... and bring it, and if its a sock, i'll fuss and praise... if its something else... i'll take it and put it down and say get me SOCK

but what else can i do to teach differentation of objects... its almost like he hears "get the" and he's off and running before the word...
but i've tried saying
Harley work (something i always say before i use any other commands)
then Sock Harley get it.
vs Get the sock... thinking if i say the noun first he'll hear it more...
but that doesnt seem to help either...

Ideas???
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2007, 11:03 am

Hmmm... does Harley know for sure what the objects are called??? That would have to be your first step... name and teach what each object is...
Mick can distinguish between at least 20 different things, and if I point to something, he will get me that object... then again, I talk to Mick A LOT, and he picks up stuff fast... for a knucklehead... :P
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby katiek0417 » December 13th, 2007, 11:27 am

Is there any way to keep the dog there until you get the words out...then make it clear what you are asking for?

For example, keep him on leash to hold him there...Hold up the sneaker, then say "get the sneakers" and put the sneakers in his mouth and make him hold them?

It's a technique used in retriever training...and I used it to teach my dogs different objects to retrieve...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby TheRedQueen » December 13th, 2007, 11:47 am

This is one thing that no one has been able to give me a clear, good training method for. I've asked all sorts of groups...and every one does things differently. Most just use repetition when training...and not accepting the object given. I take the object given, but don't give a treat, but just say calmly..."thanks".

One thing I learned at the last conference was to have two objects that you ask for (the woman training was using a watch and a phone...that's what she had handy in her bag). She put them down side by side, and asked for the phone. Her hands were hovering over each item, and if the dog went for the wrong object, she brought her hand down over the item so he couldn't get it. If he went to the correct one, she took her hand away, so it was free to take it from him. I like this, but haven't worked on it at all yet. :shock: Slacker that I am!

It's hard, I know to be the trainer and the recipient...John had more trouble with this at first...he's always been given a trained dog, this time he actually had to work through things with his SD...and still is. ;) Trouble is, you really NEED the dog to do these things NOW, so scheduling "training " time is hard...it just becomes part of the daily routine.

Just keep up what you're doing...and if he has a good wait/stay, or you can hold his leash or collar like Katrina suggested...do that also. Keep him focused until he hears the word, then let him go. If he brings the wrong object, hold him again and start over...until he brings the right one.

One thing you can try is also using the word for the object first, then the fetch word. I've heard this for using targets to people, that you should say "Mom touch" if you want the dog to touch mom, rather than "touch mom"...which makes more sense to us as humans. So you might try "shoe fetch" instead, and see if that gets him on the task at hand, but for the right item.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2007, 11:55 am

On December 13 2007, 10:47 AM, TheRedQueen wrote:
One thing you can try is also using the word for the object first, then the fetch word.


That is an excellent suggestion... I've read several times that dogs respond best to the first two words that come out of your mouth... I usually say Micks name first to get his attention... then name the object, then tell him to get it...
I name everything he comes in contact w/during the day, just routinely anyway... he picks up A LOT that way. :)
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby katiek0417 » December 13th, 2007, 12:17 pm

On December 13 2007, 10:55 AM, amazincc wrote:
On December 13 2007, 10:47 AM, TheRedQueen wrote:
One thing you can try is also using the word for the object first, then the fetch word.


That is an excellent suggestion... I've read several times that dogs respond best to the first two words that come out of your mouth... I usually say Micks name first to get his attention... then name the object, then tell him to get it...
I name everything he comes in contact w/during the day, just routinely anyway... he picks up A LOT that way. :)


Christine brings up an excellent point here. This is a common method I use with training puppies. When they sit, I say "sitz, good sitz" So, they constantly hear the word and begin to associate what they are doing with the word...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby TheRedQueen » December 13th, 2007, 1:58 pm

I use the same thing when training...down, good, down. But it seems to be harder to teach people to have the dog retrieve or target and say this...;)

"Ball fetch" just feels funny in my mouth, even though I know the dogs would do better with it...lol.

It always goes back to the human...:giggle:

Honestly, I would start using the word for the item first, like we're saying, but also incorporate some training time with just two objects at first, and not let him have the wrong one. Just like not letting a dog that goes around the ju mp in agility have the treat on the target. Have someone help you if you need to.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby gayrghts » December 13th, 2007, 2:14 pm

On December 13 2007, 12:58 PM, TheRedQueen wrote:I use the same thing when training...down, good, down. But it seems to be harder to teach people to have the dog retrieve or target and say this...;)

"Ball fetch" just feels funny in my mouth, even though I know the dogs would do better with it...lol.

It always goes back to the human...:giggle:

Honestly, I would start using the word for the item first, like we're saying, but also incorporate some training time with just two objects at first, and not let him have the wrong one. Just like not letting a dog that goes around the ju mp in agility have the treat on the target. Have someone help you if you need to.


I also name everything in site...
I'll try working with 2 objects....
i was trying with a laser pointer.... but he loves that to much so he goes crazy....
if i point... with my cane he'll get it first try...

but sometimes i'm not in view of the object...
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2007, 2:22 pm

Does he like looking for stuff? You could show him the sock, bottle, etc. ... then hide it and let him look for it - while you keep naming the object over and over... "Harley, find the sock... where is the sock?... etc.".
That will teach him the name of the object even faster... and once he knows what you want him to "find"... he'll be right on it...
You could even hide a treat w/the object in the beginning - if he is food-motivated, it'll make it so much more fun for him to "find" things for you... sometimes even switching a command can make a big difference.
Mick won't "fetch" - but he'll "find" or "get" something... :)
Last edited by amazincc on December 13th, 2007, 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby gayrghts » December 13th, 2007, 2:26 pm

On December 13 2007, 1:22 PM, amazincc wrote:Does he like looking for stuff? You could show him the sock, bottle, etc. ... then hide it and let him look for it - while you keep naming the object over and over... "Harley, find the sock... where is the sock?... etc.".
That will teach him the name of the object even faster... and once he knows what you want him to "find"... he'll be right on it... :)


i think he knows sock, sneaker, phone, bottle, but i don't think he understands when i say get the sock
that i'm not 100% thrilled that he gets me a soda bottle....

i don't want him to think i don't appreciate his trying.... but a soda bottle doesnt help me to get the laundry all bagged up like getting a sock would....

oh and btw, my roommate has been in the hosp for 10 days... so i'm totally doing this dog/house/ caring for myself thing alone... and she's going to be on kidney dialysis for at least 3 months... and unable to do much (she says) so i could really use his help NOW :)
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby amazincc » December 13th, 2007, 2:30 pm

Ooops... you posted while I edited... :D

I'm sorry to hear about your roommate - but NOW is kind of a little much to ask for, if Harley doesn't grasp what you want him to get for you... :|
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

PreviousNext

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron