Training for helping and or service dog

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Postby gayrghts » October 8th, 2007, 1:01 am

I'm looking for some ideas....

I've got a bad back... bad arthritis... there are days i can't bend... days when its real work to stand and walk, other days where i can do 2 hrs of dog obedience and agility and be uncomfortable but not horrible....

Harley has become very helpful, in just things that he's learned on his own, and behaviors i've shaped...

for example he used to pick up his dog food bowl and bring it to us...
so we shaped that till he could REALLY place it into our hands... and wait till we took it... once he's mastered that... now i'm working on other items... for example clothing and or sneakers if i need him to get them...

at present he doesnt seem to know them by name, but he will pick something up if i'm there and point with my cane, and ask for it.... and or if i "accidently drop it"

I know that dogs are capable of picking up things carefully.... ie soda bottles without puncture, soda cans etc....

how do i teach that?

how can i teach to pick up paper without killing it ?

how can i teach him to let me pull on him.... ie if he has a wide leather collar on, or a harness on... (he currently doesnt own a harness) but if i'm laying down in bed... some days i can easily move to a sitting-standing position, other days i could really use help...

what else can i teach him to do?

He knows "leave it" and does VERY well with that.

he seems very happy when he can help... to the point that at times i purposefully drop something to give him something to "help" with....

Other ideas?
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 8th, 2007, 10:03 am

Check out these websites for more info on Service Dogs, and what they can do.

IAADP (International Association of Assistance Dog Partners)
http://www.iaadp.org/

ADI (Assistance Dogs International)
http://www.adionline.org/

Are you thinking of taking him out in public, or using him at home? There are minimum standards of training to take a dog in public, not to mention that *you* must have a disability that is labeled/defined as such by *law*. Dogs that go out in public must also be BOMB PROOF, and that doesn't always happen with dogs that were pets first. Not to say it can't happen...Sawyer is living proof of that...but that's why so many people go to organizations for dogs. ;)

Also, it is sometimes hard work taking a dog with you into public places. As a trainer, I have the same rights as the disabled, so I've taken many a dog into public with me. You get people yelling or screaming (yes, that's happened more than once, you get dirty looks, you get kids yelling "there's a dog in here!), you get managers trying to tell you that you have to take your dog back outside, you get people asking you if you're blind, and so on. Not for everyone. And add to that, you have anti-bully breed sentiments...that makes it harder with a pit bull SD. (Sawyer is a small red Aussie...who ignores everyone while working, yet people still scream in fear when he comes around a corner). That's the bad stuff. The not being allowed in (they can try!), or being shoved in a corner at at restaurant, or by the table with screaming kids, the irate customers complaining to managers, etc.

But as John says (I don't see this side personally), people see the dog first . They don't see him in a scooter anymore...they see the cute dog next to him. They come over to talk, whereas if he doesn't have Sawyer, people make it a point to ignore him. He likes not being invisible anymore. (John's a people person)

On the other hand...dogs that work at home (Home Companion, or other names...) are not bound by law...because they're basically a specially trained pet that helps you out. Score helps me out at home, because I often have back issues, that make me wince when I bend over, or hip pain that makes it painful for me to squat down...etc.

Here's some of the stuff that Sawyer (Service Dog) does to help John (who has MD and is in a scooter with LIMITED mobility...he cannot walk anymore).

*Tugs off clothing (jackets in public...pants, shirts at home...shoes if he can't reach easily...etc)

*Tugs open doors/cabinets/refrigerator

*Picks up any item that John drops or needs (shoe, "other one", pens, credit cards, change, Sawyer's leash, telephone...all things he drops a lot!)

*Takes messages or items back and forth between the two of us...(so I don't have to get off the computer, John can send Sawyer in for the phone, and Sawyer will take it to him.)

*Tugs John's jacket zipper down in the cold months...(John has trouble sometimes getting it...so we trained Sawyer last winter to tug it...with a zipper attachment that looks like a tennis ball)

*Can hand stuff to people at a counter...cashier, etc. (John doesn't have a problem with this yet, but we're preparing for anything...as his MD gets worse.)

*Hits door buttons to open automatic doors (again, this isn't an issue yet...but we're prepared, and it gives Sawyer more to do)


John's old SD, Charlie, was a big smooth collie...and he did stuff that Sawyer does not do. (Sawyer is too small, and John cannot do certain things anymore)

*Braced him while he walked
*Pulled his manual wheelchair if John got tired or was on a steep ramp
*Braced him to help him stand if in a chair or he fell
_______________________________________________________

On the training front...

As for naming objects, the best advice (I asked all sorts of AD trainers) is to keep using the word for it, as you train...just basic repetition.

Training different objects just takes time and patience...rewarding for a gentle mouth, etc. Score can pick up anything very delicately, because that's what I've rewarded for...just like Sawyer. Use things that don't matter to you at first. If you're worried about them tearing up paper, don't use a $20 bill to train...use a random piece of paper, and work up to a $1 bill. :D

To teach him to allow you to pull, teach him first to brace...either in a stand, or a sit...and gently pull on him, and reward for him not moving. Progress until you're pulling harder and harder, and he's not moving. Just like anything else, break it down into small baby steps.

Also...if you're going to use him for ANY type of bracing, get him completely checked by the vet first (for this in particular)...because it is hard on them.

As for help in your area, check to see if there are groups training in your area. ADI does not work with individual trainers, only organizations, but sometimes there might be a trainer there that is willing or eager to help self-trainers. I work with an organization, but I also help people self-train their dogs. :) Also, check the Meet-up sites, or yahoo groups to find self-trainers of SD in your area. Always good to have support (literally) when you're training an Assistance Dog.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 8th, 2007, 11:58 am

Here's a list of SD tasks, from the IAADP website (listed above)...to give you more ideas of what SDs can do for people with disabilities. :D SERVICE DOG TASKS

Service dogs generally receive six months to a year of schooling on tasks, obedience and public access manners. Most dogs placed by non profits since the 1970's have been trained to assist people who have a wide variety of mobility impairments. Some teams have mastered up to fifty tasks, enjoying the challenge of such an advanced education. The list of tasks in this section are a broad sampling of what has been developed over the past quarter century to address daily living needs and safety issues.

A number of the traditional tasks listed below are proving useful to individuals with hidden disabilities such as a seizure disorder, a psychiatric disorder, a potentially life threatening medical problem or conditions which cause chronic pain. Creative providers, graduates and owner trainers who are expanding the service dog concept into these additional areas will hopefully share the experimental tasks they develop with the larger community someday, providing task training particulars so others can benefit. In some cases, a responsible third party, usually a parent or a spouse, facilitates the interactions between a disabled person and his or her service dog to optimize the benefits to be obtained from including a service dog in the independent living plan of that individual.

For specific tasks to address specific symptoms of disabilities like Parkinson's Disease or MS or Epilepsy or any other disabling condition, one option is to research the subject by consulting with training providers familiar with those conditions. A second option is to send out a specific information request on email lists in the assistance dog field, gathering a variety of input. As a precaution, a second query, asking trainers and handlers for recommended ethical and /or safety guidelines in connection with any task being considered, may yield valuable input to assist with assessing the appropriateness of the suggested task for a particular team. A third option is to search archives for newspaper stories, magazine articles, television newscasts and documentaries which may focus on a particular disability or provider or type of assistance dog. Books on training guide, hearing or service dogs, autobiographies, biographies and works of fiction may in some cases, provide additional information on the desired topic.

A myth that ought to be challenged is the belief on the part of some that service dogs are only for the most severely impaired or end stage of a degenerative disease like MS. Someone who is considered much more moderately disabled, struggling with the difficulties of living alone, maintaining a job or raising a family could find teamwork with a highly trained service dog to be of enormous benefit in achieving the goal of remaining as self sufficient as possible. A number of tasks enumerated in this section could empower such individuals to conserve energy, reduce or avoid pain, minimize dependency on loved ones, prevent injuries or get help in a crisis.

RETRIEVE BASED TASKS

* Bring portable phone to any room in house
* Bring in groceries - up to ten canvas bags
* Unload suitable grocery items from canvas sacks
* Fetch a beverage from a refrigerator or cupboard
* Fetch food bowl(s)
* Pick up dropped items like coins, keys etc., in any location
* Bring clothes, shoes, or slippers laid out to assist with dressing
* Unload towels, other items from dryer
* Retrieve purse from hall, desk, dresser or back of van
* Assist to tidy house or yard - pickup, carry, deposit designated items
* Fetch basket with medication and/or beverage from cupboard
* Seek & find teamwork - direct the dog with hand signals, vocal cues to: retrieve an unfamiliar object out of partner's reach locate TV remote control select one of several VCR tapes atop TV cabinet, other surfaces
* Remove VCR tape from machine after eject button pushed
* Use target stick to retrieve an indicated item off shelves in stores retrieve one pair of shoes from a dozen in closet
* Use laser pointer to target an item to be retrieved
* Drag Cane from its customary location to another room
* Pick up and return cane if falls off back of wheelchair
* Pickup or fetch Canadian crutches from customary location
* Drag walker back to partner
* Fetch wheelchair when out of reach


CARRYING BASED TASKS (non retrieval)

* Move bucket from one location to another, indoors & outdoors
* Lug a basket of items around the house
* Transport items downstairs or upstairs to a specific location
* Carry item(s) from the partner to a care-giver or family member in another room
* Send the dog to obtain food or other item from a care-giver and return with it.
* Dog carries a prearranged object to care-giver as a signal help is needed
* Carry items following a partner using a walker, other mobility aids
* Pay for purchases at high counters
* Transfer merchandise in bag from a clerk to a wheelchair user's lap
* Carry mail or newspaper into the house


DEPOSIT BASED TASKS

* Put trash, junk mail into a wastebasket or garbage can
* Deposit empty soda pop can or plastic bottle into recycling bin
* Assist partner to load clothing into top loading washing machine
* Dirty food bowl [dog's] - put into kitchen sink
* Put silverware, non breakable dishes, plastic glasses in sink
* Deliver items to "closet" [use a floor marker to indicate drop location]
* Deposit dog toys into designated container
* Put prescription bag, mail, other items on counter top


TUG BASED TASKS

* Open cupboard doors with attached strap
* Open drawers via strap
* Open refrigerator door with a strap or suction cup device
* Open interior doors via a strap with device to turn knob
* Answer doorbell and open front door with strap attached to lever handle
* Open or close sliding glass door with a strap or other tug devices
* Shut restroom door that opens outward via a leash tied to doorknob
* Close stall door that opens outward in restroom by delivering end of the leash to partner
* Shut interior home, office doors that open outward
* Shut motel room exterior door that opens inward
* Assist to remove shoes, slippers, sandals
* Tug socks off without biting down on foot
* Remove slacks, sweater, coat
* Drag heavy coat, other items to closet
* Drag laundry basket through house with a strap
* Drag bedding to the washing machine
* Wrestle duffle bag or other objects from the van into the house
* Pull a drapery cord to open or close drapes
* Assist to close motel room drapes by tugging on edge near bottom of drape, backing up
* Operate rope device that lifts blanket and sheet or re-covers disabled person when he or she becomes too hot or cold.
* Alternatively, take edge of a blanket and move backwards, tugging to remove it or assist someone to pull the blanket up to their chin if cold


NOSE NUDGE BASED TASKS

* Cupboard door or drawers - nudge shut
* Dryer door - hard nudge
* Stove drawer - push it shut
* Dishwasher door - put muzzle under open door, flip to shut
* Refrigerator & freezer door - close with nudge
* Call 911 on K-9 rescue phone - push the button
* Operate button or push plate on electric commercial doors
* Turn on light switches
* Push floor pedal device to turn on lamp
* Turn on metal based lamps with touch-lamp device installed - nudge base
* Assist wheelchair user to regain sitting position if slumped over
* Help put paralyzed arm back onto the armrest of wheelchair
* Return paralyzed foot to the foot board of a wheelchair if it is dislodged


PAWING BASED TASKS (some dogs prefer it to nose nudge)

* Cupboard door - shut it with one paw
* Dryer door - shut it with one paw
* Refrigerator & freezer door - one forepaw or both
* Call 911 on K-9 rescue phone - hit button with one paw
* Operate light switch on wall - jump up, paw the switch
* Depress floor pedal device to turn on appliance(s) or lamp
* Jump up to paw elevator button [steady dog if he tries it on slippery tile floor]
* Operate push plate on electric commercial doors
* Close heavy front door, other doors - jump up, use both forepaws


BRACING BASED TASKS (no harness)

* Transfer assistance from wheelchair to bed, toilet, bathtub or van seat - hold Stand Stay position, then brace on command, enabling partner to keep their balance during transfer
* Assist to walk step by step, brace between each step, from wheelchair to nearby seat
* Position self and brace to help partner catch balance after partner rises from a couch or other seats in a home or public setting
* Prevent fall by bracing on command if the partner needs help recovering balance.
* Steady partner getting in or out of the bathtub
* Assist partner to turn over in bed; have appropriate backup plan
* Pull up partner with a strap [tug of war style] from floor to feet on command, then brace till partner catches balance


HARNESS BASED TASKS - Mobility Assistance
(Only appropriate for large sturdy adult dogs with sound joints, proper training)

* Assist moving wheelchair on flat [partner holds onto harness pull strap] avoiding obstacles
* Work cooperatively with partner to get the wheelchair up a curb cut or mild incline; handler does as much of the work as possible, never asking the dog to attempt an incline unaided
* Haul open heavy door, holding it ajar using six foot lead attached to back of harness, other end of lead attached to door handle or to a suction cup device on a glass door
* Tow ambulatory partner up inclines [harness with rigid handle or pull strap may be used]
* Brace on command to prevent ambulatory partner from stumbling [rigid handle]
* Help ambulatory partner to climb stairs, pulling then bracing on each step [rigid handle or harness with pull strap may be used to assist partner to mount a step or catch balance]
* Pull partner out of aisle seat on plane, then brace until partner catches balance [harness with a rigid handle and a pull strap, or pull strap only]
* Brace, counter balance work too, assisting ambulatory partner to walk; the partner pushes down on the rigid handle as if it were a cane, after giving warning command, when needed
* Help ambulatory partner to walk short distance, brace between each step [rigid handle]
* Transport textbooks, business supplies or other items up to 50 lbs in a wagon or collapsible cart, weight limit depends on dog's size, physical fitness, type of cart, kind of terrain
* Backpacking - customary weight limit is 15% of the dog's total body weight;10% if a dog performing another task, such as wheelchair pulling in addition to backpacking; total weight includes harness (average 3 - 4 lbs.). Load must be evenly distributed to prevent chafing.


OTHER KINDS OF ASSISTANCE IN CRISIS

* Bark for help on command
* Find the care-giver on command, lead back to location of disabled partner
* Put forepaws in lap of wheelchair user, hold that upright position so wheelchair user can access medication or cell phone or other items in the backpack
* Wake up partner if smoke alarm goes off, assist to nearest exit


MEDICAL ASSISTANCE TASKS (Sample)

* Operate push button device to call 911, an ambulance service or another person to help in a crisis; let emergency personnel into home and lead to partner's location
* Fetch insulin kit, respiratory assist device or medication from customary place during a medical crisis
* Lie down on partner's chest to produce a cough, enabling patient to breath, when suction machine and/or care-giver unavailable
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 9th, 2007, 12:54 am

Wow Erin... i knew you'd have a few answers :)

From having a TDI dog in the past that i utilized as a therapy dog for me as well.... i'm pretty familiar with the hassels you get from people who don't think you can enter or stay or sit or whatever....

I don't have a problem with that...

If Harley was not pretty much bomb proof now... (untrained) i'd not consider training him...

he gets distracted... but nothing flusters him... other than the trainer's hubby with bottles with rocks in them...

Tonight i'd dropped a store plastic bag... ya know the kind they pack grocery's in.... and i asked him to pick it up....

lol well he did... but he got his paws caught in it... and kindof shredded it first.... sigh.... no treat but we did take the shreds as he gave them to us.
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 9th, 2007, 1:26 am

From having a TDI dog in the past that i utilized as a therapy dog for me as well.... i'm pretty familiar with the hassels you get from people who don't think you can enter or stay or sit or whatever....


Just to get facts straight (for those that may not know) Therapy Dogs, no matter who they are certified with, do not have the same access rights as Assistance Dogs. They are only allowed to go in where invited. Xander and Ripley have been to all sorts of places as TDs...the World Bank, the Renaissance Festival, the USDA, etc...but each time it is because they are the "pettable" TDs that go to events alongside the non pettable ADs for a demo for our organization. TDs by themselves do not have any access rights.

And...to be more specific, it is the right of the PWD to have a trained Assistance dog with them. The dog has no rights. The trained AD is considered a living, breathing piece of adaptive equipment...just like a wheelchair, hearing aid or walker (except that these are not alive).

If your AD acts up in public, you lose the right to have that dog with you. If the dog is barking in the mall, poops on the floor of a restaurant, etc...you lose the right to have that dog with you, and you *can* be asked to leave. A lot of the trouble we see with ADs being denied access is because of some able-bodied person bringing their "pet" into the place.

Off my soapbox now...

It's great that Harley will be able to do all these things for you! If you are seriously considering using him in public, check out the ADI's public access test...it's a great "checklist" for what the dog should be able to do once it's trained...not including skills, but just the public access portion of the job. It's strenuous, it's hard work, and it's stressful...so not every dog can handle it. :) It's a lot more than most dogs see during the day. :shock:

I would definitely see if you can find a trainer to work with, or a group of other self-trained AD folks, to get some support, and a sharp eye to see things you might not see in your dog. :)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 9th, 2007, 2:57 am

Well.... he'd need some work around the food drops without him cleaning them up....

but otherwise, i think he'd be pretty close.... he might have some trouble with not greating someone who was greeting me....
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby Marinepits » October 9th, 2007, 7:47 am

Thank you, Erin! :goodStuff:
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 9th, 2007, 10:46 am

On October 09 2007, 1:57 AM, gayrghts wrote:Well.... he'd need some work around the food drops without him cleaning them up....

but otherwise, i think he'd be pretty close.... he might have some trouble with not greating someone who was greeting me....


Yep, food is a big issue for ADs...there is constantly food around them. Think about walking into a mall. There are pretzel places, ice cream stands, gumball machines, food courts, kids walking around with food, etc. How about the movie theater...(not to mention the big noise from all around...I had one SD in Training freak out in a movie theater because of the sound...that was fun)...there are pieces of popcorn, milk duds stuck to the floor, etc. In a restaurant they have to lie quietly under a table, and ignore the food all around them...no begging, no eating crumbs, no shifting around to smell things better. Sawyer can now lie under the table and let food fall on him without waking up...though he does wake up to hand me or John our napkins if they fall. They have to walk by tables without sniffing, putting their noses up, or trying to lick up crumbs. Hard work for a creature that was made to scavenge. ;)

The food training is harder for some dogs than others...I had a standard poodle in training who was very picky, so he was easy with that. He did wash out because he was unhappy going out all of the time...and he's now a happy pet. I've had labs in training that were difficult to deal with when food was around. :o Such a surprise! Labs having issues with FOOD!

P.S. thanks for making this a sticky Marinepits! :D
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 9th, 2007, 1:36 pm

Thanks for making it a sticky... i was thinking as i went back to find it, and i've referred to it several times already.... gosh it would be handy as a sticky, but i'm probably the only one who wants that.... so i won't ask lol

Yes any trick other than just a lot of "leave it" commands for food that he can't touch?

Harley is very interested in food.... very similar to a lab
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 9th, 2007, 2:14 pm

On October 09 2007, 12:36 PM, gayrghts wrote:Thanks for making it a sticky... i was thinking as i went back to find it, and i've referred to it several times already.... gosh it would be handy as a sticky, but i'm probably the only one who wants that.... so i won't ask lol

Yes any trick other than just a lot of "leave it" commands for food that he can't touch?

Harley is very interested in food.... very similar to a lab


We do a lot of work with food lying on the floor while we're training...and lots of work with tables, chairs, etc with food dropping. Basically try to set up anything we can think of that the dog will see. A lot of set-ups so the dog can succeed, and get rewarded for ignoring the food.

Here's one article on leaving it with food

http://www.clickersolutions.com/article ... iffing.htm

Our commands for the ADs leave it...are "Stolen" and "Paid For"...because they come up less often in conversation than "okay" and "leave it" etc. These are used for food...another command is used for sniffing dogs or people. "Rude"

Right now we're working on having Sawyer retrieve foodstuff...without trying to eat it. He does just fine with most things...it is hard, and you've got to have a good payoff!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 10th, 2007, 7:44 pm

Last night i tried to get Harley to understand to put the dirty food bowl in the sink.... and he almost had a melt down....

not sure if i handled it right....

Normally he brings the bowl to whereever Kate or I are... and puts it into our hand.... initially this was started by my calling him to me.. and holding out my hand.... even before that i'd take him to the bowl and ask him to "get it" and "give it"

So last night i stood at the sink... and said Harley... get your bowl

He ran and got it and brought it out to me... and nudged me... i held out my hand but up high, at sink height... thinking... get it up to me boy :)

He tossed it in the air, under the metal shelf, ran around the house carrying it, tried to give it to Kate in the living room, so she came out to the kitchen also... i kept calling him, and asking for the bowl.... he would not jump up to put it in my hand or on the sink....

often he steals stuff out of the sink, and he's gotten scolded for it, so i think that was the problem....

He got so frantic wanting his treat, adn wanting to do right.... that he began doing every trick he knew.... sit, down.... roll over, beg, running, tossing, jumping... in a frantic manner....
I called him... took the bowl... but did not reward for the bowl.. because that's not what i really wanted, i wanted to reward for bowl in sink...
but knew he was bugging for the reward.... so i moved away from sink.... had him sit... and then down and roll over.... he did it all perfectly and on first request so he got a reward for that.

Then today, he was antsy.... so i had dropped a cap to a bottle of aleve.... so i asked him to get that, and then to pick up some socks... when i get home at night i kick off my socks, under my desk.... so there were about 5 pairs under there he picked up all 10 one at a time.... and was very proud of himself.... :)

then I dropped my cane on purpose and he picked it up and handed it to me without being asked....

he's really on a roll on this pick it up and give it thing.... :)
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 11th, 2007, 12:03 am

Yea Harley!

Do you have a "Paws Up" command? A command to tell him to put his feet up on something? I work the two separately first (retrieve and paws up) until both are good, then work on handing stuff with feet up.

Break it down into smaller steps, and reward for the small stuff...so he doesn't get frustrated. ;)

Remember...most ADs grow up learning these skills all along...our puppies in training are never reprimanded for doing things that "pet" dogs are reprimanded for. (picking up items, putting feet up on things)...we just reward and put it on cue. So it's gonna be confusing for him at first...so go slow, and try to think of it in smaller steps...it'll be a while before you see the whole picture.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 11th, 2007, 12:11 am

lol i guess i have a paw's up command now :)

i'll work on that... he is just THRIVING on the work though.... its like i have to THINK of what to let him do.... cuz he's begging for it....
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 11th, 2007, 6:46 pm

[quote="On October 10 2007, 11:11 PM, gayrghts

i'll work on that... he is just THRIVING on the work though.... its like i have to THINK of what to let him do.... cuz he's begging for it....[/quote]

Read through the list of possible skills, and see what would work for you. :) The dog has to have three skills that help you...that "mitigate" your disability, to be able to be considered a service dog in public. So while thinking about it, figure out what things would be helpful to you. Some of the things Sawyer can do, John doesn't really need (paws up on counter to hand something to someone or pushing buttons-door, elevator, etc)...but he *might* need eventually. And it gives Sawyer some more things to do.

But he does do at *least* three things that help John out "for real". ;)

The sky's the limit (within reason...lol)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby gayrghts » October 12th, 2007, 12:33 pm

OMG Harley could make me rather lazy .....

today... i was at my computer.... my roommate was at her computer... about 30 feet away....

She had the phone, I wanted the phone....

Harley was inbetween

I asked her if she'd bring it to me... my feet hurt... she went to get up, but Harley bounded over to her... so she put the phone down... told him to "get it" and "give it" he did get it, and tried to give it to her...so i told him to "get it and give it".... and he got up on the bed holding it... (bed is between us, unless he was to walk all the way around it.... lol)

I called him to me... and with a bit of trouble he came, he did drop it 2 or 3 times but picked it up each time, and then gave it to me...

WOW.... :)
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby gayrghts » October 12th, 2007, 12:37 pm

3 separate skills.... ie the big catagories?

or 3 tasks?

ie picking items up off the floor
bringing phone from point a to point b
getting and bringing cane to me.
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 12th, 2007, 12:46 pm

On October 12 2007, 11:37 AM, gayrghts wrote:3 separate skills.... ie the big catagories?

or 3 tasks?

ie picking items up off the floor
bringing phone from point a to point b
getting and bringing cane to me.


IAADP Minimum Training Standards for Public Access

1. Amount of Schooling: Your dog should be given a minimum of one hundred twenty (120) hours of schooling over a period of Six Months or more. At least thirty (30) hours should be devoted to outings that will prepare the dog to work obediently and unobtrusively in public places.*

2. Obedience Training: Your dog must master the basic obedience skills: "Sit, Stay, Come, Down, Heel" and an off leash Recall in response to verbal commands and/or hand signals.

3. Manners: Your dog must acquire proper social behavior skills. This includes at a minimum:

* No aggressive behavior toward people or other animals - no biting, no snapping, no growling, no lunging and/or barking;
* No begging for food or petting from other people;
* No sniffing merchandise or people who pass by;
* No urinating or defecating in public unless given a command / signal to toilet in an appropriate place.

4. Disability Related Tasks: the dog must be individually trained to perform identifiable physical tasks for the benefit of the disabled human partner.

For a definition of a "physical task", "individually trained" and examples of tasks
performed by different kinds of assistance dogs, Click Here.
* the number of hours required for schooling a hearing or guide dog may be reduced to the number required by ADI's minimum training standards for programs if you utilize a professional dog trainer's services. Visit http://www.adionline.org

_______________________________________________________________

Ehhhh...I'd say it's kinda iffy on the tasks you mentioned...because they're all rather retrieve-based tasks. Hard-core trainers wouldn't be satisfied...I'm more flexible, but even I'd say...train some other behaviors. To be safe, I'd train other skills also...like tug, target to buttons, etc. Truly, you can go out there with a dog that does nothing but pick up stuff for you...because you don't have to prove anything. If you are asked, you just tell them what the dog does. Nobody can make you do anything with your dog. They can only ask.

I would prefer to see a dog with fewer skills (at least three though) and better manners...because I know a lot of dogs that can do a lot of stuff, but behave like idiots in public. ;) Public access is the hardest part of training these dogs...the skills/tasks are easy comparatively.

Edited to add...

Also, you're going to have *more* trouble taking a bully dog out in public, than someone with a fluffy golden retriever...it sucks, and it's not fair, but that's the way it is. So...you need to make sure that he is ROCK SOLID with everything that he does, and I'd make sure that you have multiple things that he does for you. (have him tug off your coat, help you brace coming out of chair, etc)

One thing I've learned from the clicker training AD trainers (my group is mainly prongs and chokes) is how to deal nicely with people in public. My BF used to argue with people when told not to bring his dog inside. He used to use a prong on his former SD, and correction based training. Now he uses a front clip, and changed his whole demeanor. When someone comes up looking annoyed (manager, etc), he drops something "accidentally" and has Sawyer pick it up while the person is walking up. He'll ask them to wait while he rewards Sawyer for a job well done, and then he turns and is very nice about things. "Thanks for letting my SD do his job first, I appreciate that". The goal now is to educate, not fight with people. My group doesn't work on that principle, and they don't "show off" the dogs...but I find a little example goes a looooong way. And Sawyer loves it...lol
Last edited by TheRedQueen on October 12th, 2007, 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
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Location: Maryland

Postby gayrghts » October 12th, 2007, 12:57 pm

On October 12 2007, 11:46 AM, TheRedQueen wrote:
On October 12 2007, 11:37 AM, gayrghts wrote:3 separate skills.... ie the big catagories?

or 3 tasks?

ie picking items up off the floor
bringing phone from point a to point b
getting and bringing cane to me.


IAADP Minimum Training Standards for Public Access

1. Amount of Schooling: Your dog should be given a minimum of one hundred twenty (120) hours of schooling over a period of Six Months or more. At least thirty (30) hours should be devoted to outings that will prepare the dog to work obediently and unobtrusively in public places.*

2. Obedience Training: Your dog must master the basic obedience skills: "Sit, Stay, Come, Down, Heel" and an off leash Recall in response to verbal commands and/or hand signals.

3. Manners: Your dog must acquire proper social behavior skills. This includes at a minimum:

* No aggressive behavior toward people or other animals - no biting, no snapping, no growling, no lunging and/or barking;
* No begging for food or petting from other people;
* No sniffing merchandise or people who pass by;
* No urinating or defecating in public unless given a command / signal to toilet in an appropriate place.

4. Disability Related Tasks: the dog must be individually trained to perform identifiable physical tasks for the benefit of the disabled human partner.

For a definition of a "physical task", "individually trained" and examples of tasks
performed by different kinds of assistance dogs, Click Here.
* the number of hours required for schooling a hearing or guide dog may be reduced to the number required by ADI's minimum training standards for programs if you utilize a professional dog trainer's services. Visit http://www.adionline.org

_______________________________________________________________

Ehhhh...I'd say it's kinda iffy on the tasks you mentioned...because they're all rather retrieve-based tasks. Hard-core trainers wouldn't be satisfied...I'm more flexible, but even I'd say...train some other behaviors. To be safe, I'd train other tasks/skills also...like tug, target to buttons, etc. Truly, you can go out there with a dog that does nothing but pick up stuff for you...because you don't have to prove anything. If you are asked, you just tell them what the dog does. Nobody can make you do anything with your dog. They can only ask.

I would prefer to see a dog with fewer skills (at least three though) and better manners...because I know a lot of dogs that can do a lot of stuff, but behave like idiots in public. ;) Public access is the hardest part of training these dogs...the skills/tasks are easy comparatively.


Well... we definatetly still have some work to do.... this brat pee's and poops when he darn well feels like it....
And although we have no aggression, biting, snapping, growling, barking... we do on occasion pull to get to a dog or person if we think we like them....
He can do offleash recall if we're talking putting him on a 30 foot lead.... and then droping it and having him come.... possibly could do it with the lead off....
but if we're talking about random recall, ie when he's playing or sniffing.... nah.... we're not there...
we don't sniff merchandise, or people, but will sniff to pee ANYWHERE sigh.

Harley's a 75 lb big boy... and an amstaff to boot.... he could not work unobtrusively if he tried.... lol
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
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gayrghts
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Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby TheRedQueen » October 12th, 2007, 1:34 pm

Well... we definatetly still have some work to do.... this brat pee's and poops when he darn well feels like it....


Yeah, that's definitely a no-no. I was so pleased with Sawyer a couple of weeks ago...we were outside at the MD wine festival...walking through crowds, moving around booths...all outside, in the grass. We were there a good two hours or so, and he started getting antsy. We figured he had to go potty, so I took him (it was easier with the set-up for me to take him, rather than John because there was a curb) to go potty. He got out the "gate" into the grass out there (from one grassy area to another), and had massive quantities of diarrhea (maybe from the crab dip my sister insisted he needed). How in the H*ll did he hold it in like that...and know that one grassy area was okay, but not the other...I was amazed, and I trained him! Such a good boy...he was made for this work!

And although we have no aggression, biting, snapping, growling, barking... we do on occasion pull to get to a dog or person if we think we like them....
He can do offleash recall if we're talking putting him on a 30 foot lead.... and then droping it and having him come.... possibly could do it with the lead off....
but if we're talking about random recall, ie when he's playing or sniffing.... nah.... we're not there...
we don't sniff merchandise, or people, but will sniff to pee ANYWHERE sigh.


Start taking him places that pets are allowed...pet stores, hardware stores, etc...and make him behave like you'd want a SD to behave (no sniffing, peeing, etc.) I don't recommend immediately taking dogs out in public places that pets aren't allowed...because if they mess up (or make a mess)...it's that much harder for well-trained ADs.

Harley's a 75 lb big boy... and an amstaff to boot.... he could not work unobtrusively if he tried....


Oh, you'd be surprised...we'll regularly go out after training...and often have no fewer than a dozen dogs with us in a restaurant (labs, goldens, st. poodles...fairly large dogs), and no one will know until we all get up to leave...unless they saw us come in of course. You'd be surprised how small these dogs can curl up under a table.

I had a 65# standard poodle that I worked for a while...big tall boy (about 28" at the shoulder-a non-standard, standard poodle). Talk about a dog that is noticable! Big curly thing walking around in public...can't miss him! The goal is to be as unobtrusive as possible...which isn't always possible. ;) But if he went into a restaurant, no one knew he was under the table! That's the goal.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby TheRedQueen » October 12th, 2007, 2:08 pm

Does he help balance you while you're walking with him? Or could he, if you have a stiff handle on a harness? Basically using him instead of the cane, or with the cane. That's a good skill. :) Helping you up in bed is also a good task.

I asked a friend who is also an AD trainer...and she said that she'd view 1. (picking up dropped objects) AND 3. (picking up your cane) as one task.

Though she also says that the the documents and such do not spell out what they are looking for (task, skill, etc). So confusing! ;)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

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