Separation anxiety

This forum is all about training and behavior. Everything from potty training to working titles!

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 12:00 pm

How long would you give a shelter dog, with severe SA, to "come around" or get better, before deciding it cannot go to any homes where it won't be supervised almost 24/7?
As you know, that drastically reduces the homes it CAN go to.
Just FYI, we now have a destroyed kennel run (chain link) and a destroyed indoor crate (the really NICE ones, too :cry: )
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby amazincc » September 7th, 2007, 12:21 pm

What kind of dog?

Well, you know what my very unrealistic answer would be... :oops:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby mnp13 » September 7th, 2007, 12:30 pm

I probably wouldn't. Overcoming SA is difficult, and the smallest break in routine can set back that training a lot. Ruby is mostly over her problems, but they resurface every time we have left her with my parents. They come back to a much lesser exent if she is in our house but I am away for an extended period.

You may be able to fix the problem 100% with the dog, but it may go right back to the problem the minute it leaves. If it was mild to moderate, I'd say it was workable, but if the dog is being that destructive then it will probably revert to that behavior under stress... which it will be in the first few weeks in a new home.

Every dog has to be alone at some point, and if it is a true danger to itself and its surroundings then that will prove to be quite a challenge.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 12:32 pm

Thanks Michelle. I am going to contact the shelter today and ask what they want me to do w/him. It's sickening, he's a pup.
He was adopted out once and apparently STRUCK as he's so handshy he ducks when you move your arms.
I don't blame him for the SA one bit but realistically I know he's going to be almost impossible to adopt out.
I get calls daily to take in dogs, and I can't spend months trying to rehab this or that dog :cry:
Dammitall I hate this some days...
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby amazincc » September 7th, 2007, 12:40 pm

Awww, Yvette... a puppy??? :cry:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 1:38 pm

Just less than a year old.
Not a BABY puppy - but he's also spent the majority of 2 mos IN the shelter.

Was adopted out once already and brought back.

Yeah - they are trying to go "no kill"...Well at least he won't be at risk for euth. there!!?
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby mnp13 » September 7th, 2007, 1:46 pm

On September 07 2007, 13:38, msvette2u wrote:Yeah - they are trying to go "no kill"...Well at least he won't be at risk for euth. there!!?


I guess... but is a life of being adopted out and then being brought back over and over (which is a distinct possiblity) better than being put down?
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby brooksybrooks1 » September 7th, 2007, 1:46 pm

understandable if you don't have time to rehabilitate. however, if you are interested, there is hope. brooklyn had the most god awful separation anxiety i can even imagine. he would lose bowel control, he would foam at the mouth so badly it looked like he had peed or spilled water in his cage, adn there would be about 6" of foam built up all around the outside of his kennel on the carpet. he destroyed two kennels, ate a hole in the floor, did unspeakable damage to the house the days he destroyed the kennels and actually got out, and was obviously going out of his mind when he was alone. i don't know if you have multiple dogs or not, and if so if one of them could be his buddy, but what we did was buy the sturdiest kennel around, put it in his own bedroom, turned a radio on for him, and at first put tre in the kennel with him. this made him not go crazy. then tre in a seperate kennel facing brooks and up against his kennel. then slowly moved tre's kennel further and further away. if one day he regressed, we'de move tre closer and start over, until tre's kennel was outside with the door open, then the door closed, then tre didn't have to be in there with brooks at all. interactive toys help (ones that they have to work on to get a treat or a second toy out). feeding and exercising before you leave help (they get tired) having the kennel in a closet or a kennel that is mostly enclosed as opposed to a wire kennel helps, and throwing a sheet over the kennel helps too. starting with just leaving ten minutes or so and then building up helps, kenneling for brief periods when you are home helps, putting a bed in the kennel and letting them sleep in there overnight, possibly even with the door open helps. and, if worse comes to worst, bark collars help. the kind that go off in response to vibration with a shock (not citronella). they usually will also go off for excessive stress panting and wimpering too. we did this stuff with brooks, and now he runs right into his kennel and sleeps all day. we haven't had a problem since.

hope that helps.
Jenna
User avatar
brooksybrooks1
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 631
Location: Colorado

Postby brooksybrooks1 » September 7th, 2007, 1:48 pm

oh yeah- and don't baby talk to them or make a big deal of either leaving or coming home. don't let them come flying out of the kennel, open the door and have them do a sit stay for a second and then walk out calmly. ignore them for a good 15-20 minutes after you let them out. don't ever shove them in the kennel, throw a kong with peanut butter in there and as they go in say good boy and calmly close the door of the kennel (don't let them feel like they've been tricked into going in there). feeding in the kennel helps too. worst thing you could do is let them be loose in the house or backyard while you are gone.
Jenna
User avatar
brooksybrooks1
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 631
Location: Colorado

Postby mnp13 » September 7th, 2007, 1:52 pm

Jenna - this is a rescue dog that she has with the intention of fostering and rehoming. While you solved Tre's problems, it is likely that serious problems like the ones you described would re-surface if he was suddenly rehomed. It sounds like you did a ton of work with Tre!
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby katiek0417 » September 7th, 2007, 2:14 pm

On September 07 2007, 12:52 PM, mnp13 wrote:Jenna - this is a rescue dog that she has with the intention of fostering and rehoming. While you solved Tre's problems, it is likely that serious problems like the ones you described would re-surface if he was suddenly rehomed. It sounds like you did a ton of work with Tre!


I agree, Jenna, it sounds like you did everything you could for Tre...but you had the intention of keeping him...

This dog will probably go back to being the exact same way once he is rehomed...not to say that the pup is like a human child...but you see a lot of attachment issues and separation anxiety in kids who have been through the foster system and have gone from foster home to foster home...they'll get better if they're in a home for a period of time, but when they change, they go right back to the way they were...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
User avatar
katiek0417
pointy ear hoarder
 
Posts: 6280
Location: Glen Burnie, MD

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 2:17 pm

Yes and for everything he destroys, I need to replace it. We like the heavy duty crates, not the cheap ones you get at Walmart.
Good work with Tre, if I was going to keep this kiddo I'd work with him but we're at the point where we're crammed and then some with fosters, and the only way to keep everyone safe is to sometimes crate/rotate. He's wrecked one chain link kennel we must repair and tore apart a crate that was only a month or so old.
Furraris are the top of the line for being sturdy and not cheap to replace.
Plus, I feel kind of odd rescuing from a no-kill shelter...you know? I'll make notations there, Michelle, when we take him back, and they can try to find a home tailored to him, that way.
He will be neutered on the next run to WSU.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby brooksybrooks1 » September 7th, 2007, 2:21 pm

yeah, this work was with brooklyn not with tre, we just used to tre in brooks rehabilitation, like the guinea pig he all too often is! there's definately a possibility of him returning to this behavior, but at the same time crate training seems to work well wherever you put the crate. brooklyn sometimes stays long weekends with a friend of ours, doug, and doug hasn't had any problems.

either way, either choice you make is fine, i just wanted to let you know that separation anxiety IS curable. we did this with my sister's dog who almost got her evicted as well, and when we board her at my work and when she spent the weekend at my house after we had been through this with her she did great crated. just a thought.
Jenna
User avatar
brooksybrooks1
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 631
Location: Colorado

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 2:30 pm

On September 07 2007, brooksybrooks1 wrote:yeah, this work was with brooklyn not with tre, we just used to tre in brooks rehabilitation, like the guinea pig he all too often is! there's definately a possibility of him returning to this behavior, but at the same time crate training seems to work well wherever you put the crate. brooklyn sometimes stays long weekends with a friend of ours, doug, and doug hasn't had any problems.

either way, either choice you make is fine, i just wanted to let you know that separation anxiety IS curable. we did this with my sister's dog who almost got her evicted as well, and when we board her at my work and when she spent the weekend at my house after we had been through this with her she did great crated. just a thought.

I know it is, I'm going to leave it to the person who adopts and falls in love with him and won't give him up due to the glitch.
There's many dogs waiting to come here, and I need to triage them as best as possible...non "issue" dogs take precedence :(
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby TheRedQueen » September 7th, 2007, 2:31 pm

On September 07 2007, 12:46 PM, mnp13 wrote:
On September 07 2007, 13:38, msvette2u wrote:Yeah - they are trying to go "no kill"...Well at least he won't be at risk for euth. there!!?


I guess... but is a life of being adopted out and then being brought back over and over (which is a distinct possiblity) better than being put down?


Or having to sit in a kennel, listening to dogs 24/7 barking, getting more and more stressed out every day? I'd rather see a dog euth'd...rather than living a life like this also.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby brooksybrooks1 » September 7th, 2007, 4:12 pm

understandable.
Jenna
User avatar
brooksybrooks1
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 631
Location: Colorado

Postby msvette2u » September 7th, 2007, 6:43 pm

Oh you guys will love this one...I took him back to the shelter and I told them, I need to make a notation on his paperwork that he doesn't do well in crates OR chain link, he destroyed both!

And the &%#$@ girl says "Oh we know all about that already, it was on his paperwork; he's an owner surrender".

Um...and that information was not given to me, WHY...????? :x

I told her, "That would be good information to give someone!!??" She ignored me...I love the PR over there... :rolleyes2:
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Postby gayrghts » September 7th, 2007, 6:53 pm

oy..... yes that would be good info
Heather

A dog teaches a (kid) boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.
- Robert Benchley
User avatar
gayrghts
I live here
 
Posts: 2346
Location: upstate ny

Postby DemoDick » September 9th, 2007, 10:45 am

Furraris are the top of the line for being sturdy and not cheap to replace.


AWESOME crates.

Demo Dick
"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama
"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge
User avatar
DemoDick
They Like to Fondle My Gun
 
Posts: 1910
Location: New York

Postby msvette2u » September 9th, 2007, 10:53 am

On September 09 2007, DemoDick wrote:
Furraris are the top of the line for being sturdy and not cheap to replace.


AWESOME crates.

Demo Dick


Oh I know! And that brat popped the freaking door IN.
Can you believe it?
They are SO sturdy. We managed to twist it back into shape and put it back together but it won't take another dog doing that to it without breaking.
We actually went and bought 4 diff ones, a Giant, an XL, a L and a medium.
We found a medium size at Goodwill for only $16.50 (what a deal!!!) and we'd had a large one given to us at one point and we decided that's the only type we want to actually buy (new). We get used ones from Goodwill when we find them there :)
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
User avatar
msvette2u
I live here
 
Posts: 6812
Location: Eastern WA

Next

Return to Training & Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron