At the vet office...

[Wyldmoonwoman]

My dog came to me very fearful of everything from lack of exposure, she was living in a cage with the crack-head and it showed with agression.
The most important lesson that we learned was that if my dog has a task she will focus on her task in stressful situations, and she is no longer reacting to the situations.

So we sit for 10 minutes at least twice a day.

I started at home while I was on the computer and gradually added distractions, went outside, went to the park and even the bench at the dog park to practice around dogs, to the vet, first outside then inside the waiting room, it was a long 6 month process but it is the most valuable exercize that we do.

Sitting is a less vulnerable position than a down-stay, it is a job, you can practice eye contact while the dog is sitting and it is easy and fun to proof because you can relax on a random park bench while your dog is working

Good luck

[amazincc]

You just sit? And make her practice the "sit" command?

[SisMorphine]

Is Mickey not good with all strangers, or is it just people to come to the door and the scary vet?

[amazincc]

All strangers... my two daughters and I are the only people who can touch him...

[Wyldmoonwoman]

You just sit? And make her practice the "sit" command?

That is all we do, but we practice LONG sits...it gives her a task to focus on when the world around her is stressing her out, she has something to do rather than reacting to whatever is causing her stress...it took a long time before she was able to focus on the sitting in a stressful situation.

In the beginning, I told her to sit once at home and would manually correct her if she moved or tried to get up, I started with short intervals, 3 minutes and gradually increased to 30 while I was watching TV. I even made her sit for 3 minutes before eating dinner. When I was done I released her with an OK and lots of affection and praise. When she got it at home we went outside, then to public places.

I don't like to use treats, but I did use treats every time she looked at me to reinforce focusing on me...now she will sit and stare at me while I walk around the room.

My trainer suggested this to us and I can't tell you how much sitting has helped us when things are stressful to my dog, she knows how to sit and is good at it, she has had lots of practice sitting and it builds her confidence in a crazy world because she does not screw sitting up...your dog is focusing on scaring away all of the things that are uncomfortable to him so maybe teaching him a positive, non reactive, non vulnerable activity to do instead of reacting might help.

I am NOT a trainer, but this is what worked for us and I will say again that it took at least 6 months for my dog to be able to sit quietly in a public situation. It also has helped us manage her DA because if I see another dog, I have her sit and look at me until the dog passes

[SisMorphine]

All strangers... my two daughters and I are the only people who can touch him...

Yup that's going to make it pretty difficult to desensitize him at the vet's. I had a Dutchie was was GREAT with people and FANTASTIC at the vet's office, both in the waiting room and in the room . . . very friendly, giving kisses, wagging his tail, etc. But the SECOND he felt that vet business was going to go down he would lose it. His first vet visit was the first time I got bit by that dog.

Sorry, my point is just to remind you not to expect miracles, especially if he's bad with strangers. Keep all sessions very short and sweet, walk in and out. And when you're ready for the waiting room DON'T walk in and sit down for a full minute. Walk in and walk around the waiting room and back out. Once that's okay then literally sit down in the chair for a second, get up and leave. How is his obedience? The more commands a dog knows how to do full proof the more confidence they will gain and the less likely they'll be to fear bite. I especially like adorable tricks because when you do them people will laugh and coo and that just makes them love to do those tricks even more.

Do you have a trainer in your area that you can work with regarding the stranger issue? I think that in addition to environmental desensitization and obedience/tricks he definitely will need to work on greeting friendly strangers. And though I normally do NOT like muzzling a dog, perhaps doing some work with him on a basket muzzle to make wearing it a positive experience would be a good idea.

[mnp13]

I have a few books on fear related issues in dogs I can suggest to you, and some resources.If you want any feel free to PM me.

would you mind posting them?

[amazincc]

All strangers... my two daughters and I are the only people who can touch him...

Sorry, my point is just to remind you not to expect miracles, especially if he's bad with strangers. Keep all sessions very short and sweet, walk in and out. And when you're ready for the waiting room DON'T walk in and sit down for a full minute. Walk in and walk around the waiting room and back out. Once that's okay then literally sit down in the chair for a second, get up and leave. How is his obedience?

His obedience at home is great...
I do get your point and I don't expect miracles... I know this is going to take quite some time and I will not "rush" him again...

Do you have a trainer in your area that you can work with regarding the stranger issue? I think that in addition to environmental desensitization and obedience/tricks he definitely will need to work on greeting friendly strangers. And though I normally do NOT like muzzling a dog, perhaps doing some work with him on a basket muzzle to make wearing it a positive experience would be a good idea.

We are going to see a behaviorist first...
Mick doesn't mind wearing his muzzle (it is a basket style)... he always wears it when we're in contact w/other people.

[amazincc]

You just sit? And make her practice the "sit" command?

That is all we do, but we practice LONG sits...it gives her a task to focus on when the world around her is stressing her out, she has something to do rather than reacting to whatever is causing her stress...it took a long time before she was able to focus on the sitting in a stressful situation.

I am definitely going to try this! Thanks...

[lilabet]

I think you have gotten lots of good advise here. Unfortunately most veterinarians have not had much schooling in animal behavior or training/behavior modification. I have heard lots of stories from people who's vets gave them all sorts of crazy training advise or very old outdated advise.

[SisMorphine]

That's good that his obedience at home is great. Try stopping in places you normally walk in and do obedience there. Once he's good there try it in the parking lot of the vet hospital. Once he's comfortable walking inside and out, have him walk in, do some quick obedience, then walk back out.

That's great that he's used to a basket muzzle. I say continue to reinforce how "good" a muzzle is with food. This way when the day comes that you have to go to the vet he will equal muzzle with food and vet's office with food (are you feeding him when you walk in quick and walk out? You should definitely be feeding him if you're not). You'll hopefully create a double pavolvian response this way as both muzzle and vet's office equal food.

[amazincc]

Yes, I am feeding him when he wears the muzzle... he actually gets semi-excited when I put it on him.... muzzle means food and going out!

We were coming back from our walk today and had a crapload of strangers and a bunch of wild ducks in the front yard... I stood about 10 feet away and waited for everyone to leave. Mick sat (I placed him a little behind me, but he could still see everything) and he didn't make a sound - no whining, growling, lunging... nothing. He wasn't even anxious.
Once the people left, we went upstairs and had to walk past the ducks close enough for him to "catch" one if he had tried... nothing. He walked next to me w/out a problem.

[Red]

would you mind posting them?

Sure.As far as books here are a few:

The Cautious Canine by Patricia B. McConnell is a short booklet very easy to understand.It is filled with example cases of fearful dogs and management solution, along with behavior modification.It is pretty much a guide to desensitizing and counter classical conditioning.

Click to Calm: Healing the Aggressive Dog, by Emma Parson.It includes type of aggression caused by fearfulness and their management.Not only fear aggression toward people by leash aggression and other situations where a dog experience fear.Quite useful for those who think that a nice yank on a training collar solve all problems while fear is a more complicate issues than simple training.One thing that is missing is to address health reasons that might cause aggression but for that one could look into some other books.

Scaredy Dog! Understanding and Rehabilitating Your Reactive Dog, by Ali Brown.
After seen her video, which adds to the book, I don't totally agree on some of her judgements and opinions but she has a few good tips on how to redirect such behaviors and possibly work around it.Especially when dogs display fear aggression is the house, inside a vehicle, a new place and so on.She has also a fairly good explanation on what reactivity is and what triggers it.
The video is called "Scaredy Dog" and it is a seminar DVD.

On body language:

On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas is a short booklet about body language.A good read for those who are just now grasping the concept of reading body language.
Her video is of poor quality but some of the dogs in it are a good example of what she talks about.Not hard to follow trough.

Canine Body Language: A Photographic Guide Interpreting the Native Language of the Domestic Dog, by Brenda Aloff.

Also a good read about body language.Explained with pictures (not so great) and an easy to understand language.

Of much more use is her book Aggression in Dogs: Practical Management, Prevention & Behaviour Modification.
An excellen book about management, which includes the use of training collars (she likes head collars) .A lot of it focus on dog to dog aggression but in many cases this is caused by fear and she address it quite well.Some might get bored with it and her exercizes routine but I found it really easy and practical.She uses drawings and explains body language in this book as well.

I have bought Help for Your Fearful Dog: A Step-by-Step Guide to Helping Your Dog Conquer His Fears, by Nicole Wilde as I have heard it is decent but he hasn't arrived yet so I cannot give a review.

There are several other books in the market but for what we are talking about these ones are simple and to the point.For more knowledge we'd have to look into text books.There are many but not so easy for the average dog owner who is just starting to learn more about behavior issues.I am reading the Handbook of Applied Dog Behavior and Training, Volume Two: Etiology and Assessment, which is quite expensive and not so easy to follow.
There are studies about chemical imbalances on dogs who display fear aggression out there but it is hard to find the actual paperwork .I should be starting some classes with the CASI soon and with that I might be able to find some reads to point out.


As far as resources on the net there are basic knowledge:

http://www.knowingdogs.com/articles/workingwithfearfuldogs.htm
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/fearful_dogs.html

This is a really good website:

http://www.fearfuldogs.com/guidelines.html

[amazincc]

Thanks, Red! I have several of those books already and I LOVE the Calming Signals one... it's great and very easy to understand... I had NO IDEA dogs yawn to calm (themselves and others) down...