Stop playing with the cats!

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Postby mommatococoa » June 9th, 2007, 9:42 pm

So Cocoa want leave the cats alone. She doesn't try to eat them or nothing. But she keeps trying to play with them and they don't exactly want to play. LOL Any ideas on how to stop her from bothering them??
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » June 9th, 2007, 9:50 pm

Water bottle? Inara seems hell-bent on getting my two cats to play with her too, and needless to say, they're not so thrilled. So I give her a sharp "uh-uh" when she is pestering them, or I spray her with the spritzer. :|
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Postby randi81 » June 9th, 2007, 11:03 pm

I keep Saydee and Zeuss (the cat) seperated 24/7. I had originally thought that Saydee just wanted to *play*, but since then I've discovered her super high prey drive... so they are allowed no contact. :|
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Postby mommatococoa » June 11th, 2007, 8:54 am

Water bottle? Inara seems hell-bent on getting my two cats to play with her too, and needless to say, they're not so thrilled. So I give her a sharp "uh-uh" when she is pestering them, or I spray her with the spritzer.


The only problem with the spritzer is that she likes it!!! :backRoll: She will start and play with it. I try to have a stern tone but sometimes shes jus so hardheaded.


I keep Saydee and Zeuss (the cat) seperated 24/7. I had originally thought that Saydee just wanted to *play*, but since then I've discovered her super high prey drive... so they are allowed no contact.



I've watched Cocoa with the cats and shes never tried to bite them or nothing. She puts her little butt up in the air and does that playful bark. :fastRoll: The older cat trys to put Cocoa in her place but she cant seem to get that through her head!
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Postby Malli » June 11th, 2007, 10:09 am

I thought I'd mention that claws can do some serious damage to eyes, so even better to enforce those rules and training if you have "swatty" cats...
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Postby mommatococoa » June 11th, 2007, 10:13 am

I thought I'd mention that claws can do some serious damage to eyes, so even better to enforce those rules and training if you have "swatty" cats...


Whenever the older cat does swat at her.. Cocoa always seems to know when its coming and turns her head to the side or turns her body to the side before the cat makes contact with her.
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Postby Malli » June 11th, 2007, 10:48 am

Its up to you, but if the claw punctures her eye ball, she'll loose sight and the eye. The chance is not very high, but it is still a risk.
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Postby mommatococoa » June 11th, 2007, 10:57 am

Thanks for the advice. I understand the risk which is why I have asked for help on this so something like that does not happen.
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Postby mnp13 » June 11th, 2007, 11:17 am

We came up with a rule: no matter who starts it, the dog gets in trouble. the dogs got the point pretty quickly.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » June 11th, 2007, 12:01 pm

I started off with that, but my young cat is just such an intigator - Inara will be in an entirely different room, but visible, and the cat will just growl and hiss and raise a fuss, and then fly at Inara. So I have to alternate who I'm correcting. Who ever thought I'd be getting pissed at an 8 lb cat for attacking a 50 lb pit?
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Postby mnp13 » June 11th, 2007, 1:15 pm

On June 11 2007, 12:01, pitbullmamaliz wrote:I started off with that, but my young cat is just such an intigator - Inara will be in an entirely different room, but visible, and the cat will just growl and hiss and raise a fuss, and then fly at Inara. So I have to alternate who I'm correcting. Who ever thought I'd be getting pissed at an 8 lb cat for attacking a 50 lb pit?


Merlin will charge the dogs... even if the dogs are already in the room when he arrives. He's a jerk.
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Postby Jenn » June 11th, 2007, 3:26 pm

Could you leave a leash on her and give her a leash correction when she doesn't listen to the voice command? :|
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Postby Attila Magyar » June 12th, 2007, 1:05 am

geesh sounds like some of you all need to leash the cats. Cats charging dogs, that sounds like a prelude to some real entertainment.

I suppose teach the dog to leave the cat alone. However I think it would be fair to also teach the cat to leave the dog alone. I don't like cats but I know others do. I think it is fair to train the cat to also leave the dog alone. For a cat to attack a dog and the dog be forced not to defend isn't fair in my eyes. Cats can do some real damage to a dog and cause some very permanent injuries. For the dogs safety I would keep them very separated indeed. If the dog and cat willingly bond and lay together that is one thing but if there is tension I think it best to put the cat up in another room from the dog. Give them their own territory. They are both predators and sharing territory doesn't come natural for the two.
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Postby katiek0417 » June 12th, 2007, 6:13 am

On June 12 2007, 12:05 AM, Attila Magyar wrote:geesh sounds like some of you all need to leash the cats. Cats charging dogs, that sounds like a prelude to some real entertainment.

I suppose teach the dog to leave the cat alone. However I think it would be fair to also teach the cat to leave the dog alone. I don't like cats but I know others do. I think it is fair to train the cat to also leave the dog alone. For a cat to attack a dog and the dog be forced not to defend isn't fair in my eyes. Cats can do some real damage to a dog and cause some very permanent injuries. For the dogs safety I would keep them very separated indeed. If the dog and cat willingly bond and lay together that is one thing but if there is tension I think it best to put the cat up in another room from the dog. Give them their own territory. They are both predators and sharing territory doesn't come natural for the two.


There are many people who do not have houses/apartments big enough to allow them to keep cats and dogs separated....also, what if you give your cats your bedroom, but yet you want your dog to sleep in the bedroom at night?

Also, my dogs are crated much of the time. My cats have run of the house 24/7. When my dogs are out, who am I to tell my cats they now have to limit where they go? This goes to the whole consistency thing. You need to be consistent. So, why should I limit my cats when my dogs are crated, which is most of the time, just so that my dogs can have a bit of out time?

Cats can do some serious damage. You also have dogs that don't care...my Kaiden, for example. As sweet as he is he has now nipped two of my three cats. Not hard enough to do damage, but that's not the point.

My cats get to sleep in my bed each night...they get to cuddle with us. They get run of the house. In the pack, they are of a higher position than the dogs. The dogs need to understand this. In my house, my dogs get a heavy correction if they go after the cats...I don't care if the cats run in front of them (kicking in the dog's prey drive) or what....cats run...from people...not just dogs....you're not going to change the personality of a cat. You may teach it that it can't go certain places, but you're not going to change an inborn trait...

I like the idea of putting a leash on Cocoa and giving her a leash correction when she is trying to play with the cats (she is obviously play bowing at them, but still, the cats don't want to play it sounds like)....what about pennies in a can as a sound correction (since she likes playing with the water from the spray bottle)....
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Postby mommatococoa » June 12th, 2007, 9:35 am

Thanks for everyones advice. I really appreciate it! :D
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Postby mnp13 » June 12th, 2007, 10:52 am

On June 12 2007, 01:05, Attila Magyar wrote:geesh sounds like some of you all need to leash the cats. Cats charging dogs, that sounds like a prelude to some real entertainment.

I suppose teach the dog to leave the cat alone. However I think it would be fair to also teach the cat to leave the dog alone. I don't like cats but I know others do. I think it is fair to train the cat to also leave the dog alone. For a cat to attack a dog and the dog be forced not to defend isn't fair in my eyes. Cats can do some real damage to a dog and cause some very permanent injuries. For the dogs safety I would keep them very separated indeed. If the dog and cat willingly bond and lay together that is one thing but if there is tension I think it best to put the cat up in another room from the dog. Give them their own territory. They are both predators and sharing territory doesn't come natural for the two.

I agree with you to an extent actually.

Much of the time, the cats and the dogs can be in the same room together with no problem. (I didn't say that in my post earlier, the "charge" is not daily. sorry.) Riggs is infactuated with Faye and follows her around sniffing at her. He avoids Merlin because Merlin doesn't want to be sniffed and clearly communicates that with his claws.

Our dogs are crated when we are not there partially to protect the cats. If they decide to go after the cats for real, the cats will be dead and the dogs will likely be injured, possibly badly.

Having them out together is a risk level that I am comfortable with.
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Postby Attila Magyar » June 13th, 2007, 12:03 pm

Katie,

It seems that you really love cats and that your focus is generated very much in their favor.

Michelle,

I also use crates when I am out. Not to keep cats safe but to have every thing in safe order while I am out and about. Reduces the worry for sure. Nothing at all wrong with using a crate for the welfare and safe keeping of an animal in the event you are away or busy doing something and you can't put full focus on them. They are like toddlers. lol Get bored and get into stuff they should not. They do some silly stuff sometimes. And some times some aggravating activities. Garbage knocked over and scattered about the house comes to mind. never a laughing matter when you are cleaning it up. Or at least I never found it funny.



I have been to peoples houses that own cats and dogs together and seen them get along just fine. I know there is a way to train that into both animals. I just don't know the method. I have taught my dogs to leave the farm animals alone. Not really a co existence but a level of peace among them. If a chicken gets into the kennel area it becomes dinner. But the dogs do stay away from the coop. It seems fair to me. As long as one stays out of the others space all is good. I do have a friend that has cats that are trained to actually do tricks and will come when called and stay off the furniture. I know they can be trained. To what level and how to do so I have no clue. Patience and time I am sure. I don't feel that training has to break the spirit of the creature. It must always be in kindness. It may be that only some cats are trainable. I don't really know. I just know I have seen two cats trained to do things. In Europe I have even seen them on leashes and walked just fine on them. I sure respect that. Just the same as I didn't respect when someones cat got on one of my vehicles. I really hate that. I would never let my dog in another persons yard not alone get on their car. That is so rude. But back on track. I have seen with my own eyes a cat and a dog laying in the same pet bed on the floor and no trouble to be seen of it. There is a way. I just don't know how to get there. I don't have a reason to do it but it would be nice for this person to have light or hope that it can happen and maybe the way to get to that point. And with both animals being safe, sound and secure in their own being. Not one having to cower to the other as that isn't peace it is a forced action that would likely lead to retaliation at some point.

Not being a cat lover, owner or ever have being one I don't have the knowledge to say for sure or completely understand the why. But I am willing to try to help find a solution that isn't forcing one to do something it will resent. I have heard that raising them from pup and kitten with one another works. And that latter additions are more easily done. That way both are used to the other species. I do know if an animal resents an action at some point the training will fail. In this case a failure in training will result in a very negative event. Possibly with injury or death of one or both animals. Something I am sure we all would like to avoid.
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Postby katiek0417 » June 13th, 2007, 1:50 pm

On June 13 2007, 11:03 AM, Attila Magyar wrote:Katie,

It seems that you really love cats and that your focus is generated very much in their favor.

Michelle,

I also use crates when I am out. Not to keep cats safe but to have every thing in safe order while I am out and about. Reduces the worry for sure. Nothing at all wrong with using a crate for the welfare and safe keeping of an animal in the event you are away or busy doing something and you can't put full focus on them. They are like toddlers. lol Get bored and get into stuff they should not. They do some silly stuff sometimes. And some times some aggravating activities. Garbage knocked over and scattered about the house comes to mind. never a laughing matter when you are cleaning it up. Or at least I never found it funny.



I have been to peoples houses that own cats and dogs together and seen them get along just fine. I know there is a way to train that into both animals. I just don't know the method. I have taught my dogs to leave the farm animals alone. Not really a co existence but a level of peace among them. If a chicken gets into the kennel area it becomes dinner. But the dogs do stay away from the coop. It seems fair to me. As long as one stays out of the others space all is good. I do have a friend that has cats that are trained to actually do tricks and will come when called and stay off the furniture. I know they can be trained. To what level and how to do so I have no clue. Patience and time I am sure. I don't feel that training has to break the spirit of the creature. It must always be in kindness. It may be that only some cats are trainable. I don't really know. I just know I have seen two cats trained to do things. In Europe I have even seen them on leashes and walked just fine on them. I sure respect that. Just the same as I didn't respect when someones cat got on one of my vehicles. I really hate that. I would never let my dog in another persons yard not alone get on their car. That is so rude. But back on track. I have seen with my own eyes a cat and a dog laying in the same pet bed on the floor and no trouble to be seen of it. There is a way. I just don't know how to get there. I don't have a reason to do it but it would be nice for this person to have light or hope that it can happen and maybe the way to get to that point. And with both animals being safe, sound and secure in their own being. Not one having to cower to the other as that isn't peace it is a forced action that would likely lead to retaliation at some point.

Not being a cat lover, owner or ever have being one I don't have the knowledge to say for sure or completely understand the why. But I am willing to try to help find a solution that isn't forcing one to do something it will resent. I have heard that raising them from pup and kitten with one another works. And that latter additions are more easily done. That way both are used to the other species. I do know if an animal resents an action at some point the training will fail. In this case a failure in training will result in a very negative event. Possibly with injury or death of one or both animals. Something I am sure we all would like to avoid.


I really love cats...but I can promise you, I really love my dogs, too....anyone on here can attest to that....please do not assume my focus is in the cats' favor...

My dogs are working dogs. As such, they are crated most of the time. That and the fact I simply couldn't have 9 dogs out at once. In addition, I do have dogs here that, I can promise you, will kill the cats if they are able to get hold of them.

My cats run from the dogs. They will defend themselves, but would prefer running unless cornered. Unfortunately, my dogs are also very drive-y....this is why they're able to work. Bottom line is this: if my dogs are crated 90% of the time, why should I confine my cats to certain areas of the house? Why punish my cats for that 10% of the time that my dogs are out?
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Postby Attila Magyar » June 14th, 2007, 12:40 am

Katie,

It isn't an assumption. Your dogs spend 90% of their life in a crate as you plainly put it. There isn't anything I need to assume.
I never said for you to punish your cats. Training isn't punishment. If it is then some one isn't doing it right. I do believe that I was clear in the need to train both to co exist if it is all going to be possible. Nothing about putting chokers on either or punishing either.

You are not reading anything I am typing. Just getting upset with me and justifying the 90% in the crate. I would want to kill something too after released. I really don't feel it be needed to ask how someone feels about spending that much time in a crate. Surely not!

Michelle said she crates when she is out. Not nearly all the time. her dogs are not killing the cats. I don't recall her saying she had to punish her cats for that to happen.

ah the heck with it. this isn't productive and isn't helping the person find or devise a way to train her cat and dog to get along. This is a waste of our time.

Back on track. I think that it is very possible to train both the cat and the dog to get along in one home. I have seen it before over the past 40 something years. Even seen dogs bond with ducks, rabbits and a goat. I had a APBT about 35 years ago that chummed with a Shetland pony. They wandered about together all over the farm for 15 years when Rosco died (the pony). The dog would go visit the tree every day were they used to nap. Odd yes. But the dog was born in the barn and bonded with the pony rather than his siblings. I thought it was cool and let it be. Grandpa thought it was silly a game dog being like that. And no it did not effect the dog working ability. I firmly believe that if I wanted to that I could train a dog and a cat. I trained a Bull dog to herd sheep and not harm them. That dog will kill a coyote, cougar or any other animal though that crosses that barbed wire fence. I didn't have to punish her. Just started her as a 6 week old pup in with the sheep. It was all rather simple. It took several months and at it every day several times a day. I am a firm believer that any animal with fur can be trained. Trusted alone is a whole different aspect and no I wouldn't in most cases. I think the person that started this thread has a real chance of reaching harmony in their home. It will probably take lots of patience and hard work. But I do honestly think it would be worth a try. Probably can't ever leave them alone and un-attended but you should one day be able to sit there drink your coffee and watch the news in harmony. Petting both animals at once and they laying there content with one another for that period of time.
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Postby katiek0417 » June 14th, 2007, 5:52 am

On June 13 2007, 11:40 PM, Attila Magyar wrote:Katie,

It isn't an assumption. Your dogs spend 90% of their life in a crate as you plainly put it. There isn't anything I need to assume.
I never said for you to punish your cats. Training isn't punishment. If it is then some one isn't doing it right. I do believe that I was clear in the need to train both to co exist if it is all going to be possible. Nothing about putting chokers on either or punishing either.

You are not reading anything I am typing. Just getting upset with me and justifying the 90% in the crate. I would want to kill something too after released. I really don't feel it be needed to ask how someone feels about spending that much time in a crate. Surely not!

Michelle said she crates when she is out. Not nearly all the time. her dogs are not killing the cats. I don't recall her saying she had to punish her cats for that to happen.

ah the heck with it. this isn't productive and isn't helping the person find or devise a way to train her cat and dog to get along. This is a waste of our time.

Back on track. I think that it is very possible to train both the cat and the dog to get along in one home. I have seen it before over the past 40 something years. Even seen dogs bond with ducks, rabbits and a goat. I had a APBT about 35 years ago that chummed with a Shetland pony. They wandered about together all over the farm for 15 years when Rosco died (the pony). The dog would go visit the tree every day were they used to nap. Odd yes. But the dog was born in the barn and bonded with the pony rather than his siblings. I thought it was cool and let it be. Grandpa thought it was silly a game dog being like that. And no it did not effect the dog working ability. I firmly believe that if I wanted to that I could train a dog and a cat. I trained a Bull dog to herd sheep and not harm them. That dog will kill a coyote, cougar or any other animal though that crosses that barbed wire fence. I didn't have to punish her. Just started her as a 6 week old pup in with the sheep. It was all rather simple. It took several months and at it every day several times a day. I am a firm believer that any animal with fur can be trained. Trusted alone is a whole different aspect and no I wouldn't in most cases. I think the person that started this thread has a real chance of reaching harmony in their home. It will probably take lots of patience and hard work. But I do honestly think it would be worth a try. Probably can't ever leave them alone and un-attended but you should one day be able to sit there drink your coffee and watch the news in harmony. Petting both animals at once and they laying there content with one another for that period of time.


Actually, yes I am reading what you are writing.

You make a statement that spending 90% of the time in the crate would make you want to kill something. Do you even know WHAT my dogs do? They are trained in personal protection. They compete at very high levels of protection sport.

So, guess what? Killing something. It's the desirable trait here. I have 5 Belgian Malinois and 1 Dutch Shepherd. These dogs are like German Shepherds on crack when it comes to drive. This is why many police dept's and the military are moving towards them in the field.

When they are out of their crates, they bounce off of walls. It doesn't matter if we've run them around for 2 hours beforehand....they still have energy. The only 2 dogs that get significant out of crate time are the labs. They are duck dogs (well, one is in training).

In addition, at least 2 of our females are dog aggressive. One female can only be out with the males (she can also be out with my lab, but she's a little rough with her). We MUST do a crate and rotate here.

My dogs have a better life than most. My dogs train daily. They go swimming (all of them) at the pier at my house daily. They play with us and each other for significant amounts of time daily. I run with the adults every day - 2 miles each dog (with bad knees, on one of which I'm scheduled to get an osteotomy in Dec - where they saw off part of my tibia bone to make my patella track differently to ease the pressure of arthritis - and I'm only 31).

As the oldest and the best trained (he's the best to have nearby if someone breaks in), Jue gets to sleep in the bedroom each night. He has to be kept in an aluminum crate b/c he can break out of a plastic crate.

These are not typical dogs. They have been bred to be workers. They have been bred to be extremely high drive. And in all cases, they were pick of the litter - meaning that out of the whole litter, they had the BEST nerve, and the HIGHEST drive.

More than 1 of these dogs out in the house at any given time will destroy the house. Not by biting or chewing (our dogs don't do that), but just by chasing and playing with each other, knocking stuff over, etc.

We can have them out 1 at a time to hang with us. In fact, Jue (our oldest) is often out when my boyfriend isn't here. In fact, he's out with me right now. He's sitting on the floor next to my chair with his head in my lap. Why does he get the most out time when Greg is gone? Let's put it this way: I pity a person who tries to break in here or hurt me while he's gone.

I am done with this topic. I respect your opinions, and I respect your defense of them. You won't change mine, though. Alternatively, I would hope that you respect my opinions and my defense of them, and understand that you can't change mine.

It is clear that we have to agree to disagree on this topic.
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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