Update on Susie and Pups

Postby Marinepits » July 3rd, 2006, 10:12 pm

savagem wrote: A rescue wants to get pups adopted out as quickly as possible, both to keep costs down and to get them into homes at the optimal point in their development. And let's be honest--to get them into homes before they hit that gangly, awkward puppy stage.


A rescue also wants to get pups adopted out as quickly as possible to free up space for the next bunch that's coming in -- the faster the pups are adopted out, the more dogs and pups they can save.

While I personally don't agree with pediatric speutering, I think it's a necessary "evil" in the vast majority of rescue situations.
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Postby msvette2u » July 3rd, 2006, 10:15 pm

savagem wrote: I believe that in my situation--where I have the luxury of picking and choosing the perfect home for Sadie and following through with the family--it will work. And has worked for me twice before. But most shelters and many rescues don't have that luxury. So what's the solution? I honestly don't know. I only know what the solution is for this particular puppy.


Exactly my point. You're not rushing to get her out of your house, you're going through the proper way to find her the best home available.
I cannot see a family agreeing to the contract, and I KNOW you'll watch like a hawk, and not follow through with the spay. Most "normal" people (haha) don't want a dripping girl around who's attracting all the neighborhood "boys". :shock:
I know too you'd never adopt her to someone who wasn't going to spay her!
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Postby savagem » July 3rd, 2006, 10:16 pm

While I personally don't agree with pediatric speutering, I think it's a necessary "evil" in the vast majority of rescue situations.[/quote]

I hear you on that one.
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Postby msvette2u » July 3rd, 2006, 10:20 pm

Definately - and it's better to be safe than sorry and not do it. If a puppy dies (heaven forbid!) it is better than had you waited and not had it fixed and it procreated :(
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Postby savagem » July 3rd, 2006, 11:02 pm

I was less scared about the pediatric speuter thing before the SPBR litter came down with Parvo. The most likely scenario was that they picked it up when they were at the vet's office for their speuters. Granted it may not have been the cleanest clinic in the world. Of course the foster home was encouraged to find the cheapest place available with no regard for reputation. But those babies got sick. I believe that the ones who fell ill were both girls. Imagine the stress that their little bodies were under being subjected to a frightening, invasive procedure like that. Is it any wonder that they were unable to fight off the virus when they encountered it?
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Postby SisMorphine » July 3rd, 2006, 11:22 pm

Marinepits wrote:While I personally don't agree with pediatric speutering, I think it's a necessary "evil" in the vast majority of rescue situations.

I fully agree. You want to do what's best for the pups, and in some cases that means making sure they can't reproduce.

One of my friends said to me, regarding the Greyhound puppy, "Man you must be so pissed off!" I wasn't. I was bummed, but not pissed because I fully understood why the rescue wouldn't budge. They don't know me from a hole in the wall. Maybe I plan on breeding this unregistered bitch and selling her puppies. They had no clue. I understood, I was bummed, I moved on.
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Postby msvette2u » July 3rd, 2006, 11:25 pm

:( Sorry Sis.
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Postby SisMorphine » July 3rd, 2006, 11:28 pm

msvette2u wrote:Had we had this information we'd have waited until our Yaeger was older, I'm sure.

My aunt and uncle feel the same way. They had their GSDs neutered at 5 months because that was when the breeder told them to do it. Now at 2.5 their surviving dog (his brother died from a mysterious stroke at 2 years old) has had surgery on his elbows and his back, and may be slated for more surgery later on down the road. The new vet, and their new breeder (they just got a puppy a few months ago) blame it on the dog's bones growing too fast, most likely connected with improper nutrition (Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy for the first year per their breeder . . . blech!) and the early neuter. Especially with large breed dogs it really makes me worry the more I read about it and any future dogs I may have (since I'm a sucker for the large and extra large breeds).
Last edited by SisMorphine on July 3rd, 2006, 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SisMorphine » July 3rd, 2006, 11:29 pm

msvette2u wrote::( Sorry Sis.

It's alright. I'm fostering a 7 month old Malanois right now, so I'm getting my puppy fix. It's all good :D My Greyhound puppy will come to me eventually. I'm not worried.
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Postby msvette2u » July 3rd, 2006, 11:39 pm

SisMorphine wrote:
msvette2u wrote::( Sorry Sis.

It's alright. I'm fostering a 7 month old Malanois right now, so I'm getting my puppy fix. It's all good :D My Greyhound puppy will come to me eventually. I'm not worried.


Well that's great!

The new vet, and their new breeder (they just got a puppy a few months ago) blame it on the dog's bones growing too fast,


That's what I thought of months ago when I first saw this data. Yaeger's legs seem almost abnormally long and his front ankles seem a bit "weak" or something, and I'd never connected the two things. We had him fixed around 5-6 mos. of age. I wish now, considering that males don't get heats, we'd waited until he was around a year or so!
He is 27" (or a tad more) at the shoulder. Desired "standard" for a GSD is 26" for a male. :|
We did give him adult kibble when he was growing, and glucosamine/chondriotin for the 1st 18mos or two years.
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Postby panda » July 4th, 2006, 2:46 am

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:34 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here's a picture of Blaze. Tell me that's not a bully face.


:love: That face is the cutest!
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Postby Maryellen » July 4th, 2006, 9:10 am

every pup that has come into my house has been with me for at least a month before adopted.. we do pediatric speutering to prevent the new homes from breeding the dogs when they come into heat or are old enough. most people will abide by a speuter contract, some will not.. i dont push out puppies like other people do, i hold them for a month no matter how old they are.. arturo i had for a month, daquiri i had for over a month, jack, kaleb, shadow, etc, all those pups were with me for one full month before i let them go to new homes..

the reason vets dont understand pediatric speutering is because of what they were told ions ago. just like vets push science diet//hills because they get paid to.... i know many vets who have no nutrition background, and who frown on good food if you wont take their sciencediet/hills prescription foods....

if you want a vet that does pediatric speuters, palmyra vet clinic in PA does it, so does the ASPCA in NY... there are actually quite a few vets that will do it.

Genetics has more to do with a dogs structure when it matures then speutering does.
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Postby savagem » July 4th, 2006, 9:22 am

Maryellen,

These pups have been here since they were 3 weeks old. They are now nearly 12 weeks. If you do the math, you'll see they've been here for over two months. So I'm not really sure what the point was of your last post. :| And you're giving us the name of a vet who will do pediatric speuters? You don't seem to be paying attention to what anyone else is saying. I understand that you have your own opinions and beliefs, and that's great. But are you even reading what everyone else is writing?
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Postby savagem » July 4th, 2006, 9:24 am

panda wrote:
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:34 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here's a picture of Blaze. Tell me that's not a bully face.


:love: That face is the cutest!


Thank you! He is a cutie-pie isn't he? I love him to pieces even though he has eaten 9 pairs of shoes since he's gotten here. He has a knack for finding them no matter where I put them.
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Postby savagem » July 4th, 2006, 9:29 am

So here are a couple of recent pics of Susie, courtesy of Lindsay. I think you can see how she's filled out. And her eyes are so happy now compared to when she came. For me that's the best part of rescue and fostering--seeing the life in their eyes return. It's priceless. [img][img]http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j136/savagem13/susie_smile.jpg[/img][/img]

Image

Image
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Postby savagem » July 4th, 2006, 10:12 am

That's what I thought of months ago when I first saw this data. Yaeger's legs seem almost abnormally long and his front ankles seem a bit "weak" or something, and I'd never connected the two things. We had him fixed around 5-6 mos. of age. I wish now, considering that males don't get heats, we'd waited until he was around a year or so!
He is 27" (or a tad more) at the shoulder. Desired "standard" for a GSD is 26" for a male. :|
We did give him adult kibble when he was growing, and glucosamine/chondriotin for the 1st 18mos or two years.[/quote]

Maybe that's why my vet recommends waiting until 9 months for the boys? I wondered why, since the neuter is a relatively easy procedure. Possibly the connection between early neuter and abnormal growth? I wish there was an easy solution for rescue, but sadly there's not. Either you speuter them early and face the possible medical risks, or you adopt them out with a speuter contract. I agree with Maryellen that most will honor the contract but some will not. And it's just not feasible for most rescues to do the constant follow-up required to ensure that a speuter contract is honored. :|
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Postby Maryellen » July 4th, 2006, 11:33 am

i know you dont agree with pediatric spaying, i totally understand, some folks do and some dont.. i was just giving you a vet who does it in case you ever needed to do it again for male pups.. i think it boils down to how each individual feels about it basically.. we can agree to disagree, its a good discussion i feel...
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Postby SpiritFngrz » July 4th, 2006, 6:28 pm

Glad to hear most of the pups are adopted! And Susie is looking great! I have to disagree with one thing though- that the pup's immune system is incapable of handling a pediatric spay. If the pups nursed for as long as they should- they got a ton of immunity from their mother. A few more months isn't going to strengthen their immune system all that much. Pediatric spays are done all the time- if everything is kept sterile as normal there is no more chance of infection than if the pup were a few months older. Just my $.02

savagem wrote: Imagine the stress that their little bodies were under being subjected to a frightening, invasive procedure like that. Is it any wonder that they were unable to fight off the virus when they encountered it?
Parvo is very infectious- any dog without the vaccine would be unable to fight off the virus upon initial encounter.


Maryellen wrote:Genetics has more to do with a dogs structure when it matures then speutering does.


I agree with this.
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Postby mnp13 » July 5th, 2006, 12:29 pm

savagem wrote:OK, so I typed in that Blaze was an pit bull wanna be, and the board changed it to "pitbull wanna be". Interesting. Amstaffs don't qualify as pitbulls now?


lol

that's called a joke. Am Staff goes through just fine.

(and it's Pit Bull)
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Postby mnp13 » July 5th, 2006, 12:35 pm

I would like to put the "Lindsay issue" to rest. If you have a question about board administration, contact Charles or myself directly. You can email at admins@PitBullTalk.com This is not an issue we will be discussing in public.

There was plenty more than the board saw.

thank you.
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