My first official foster

Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:17 pm

Okay, because I never stated that anyone "should keep their mouth shut and be supportive"....I did say there are lots of ways to get information and lots of avenues to walk....supporting someone is one of those, asking questions is another. I also clearly stated that I have no problem with holding people accountable, I simply object to the manner in which it was done.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 15th, 2010, 11:18 pm

airwalk wrote:Given the uproar are any of us really surprised the dogs are no longer listed? Give the tone of the conversation, which by now I must believe they are fully aware of, is anyone surprised they are closing the door tightly?

Sometimes one must give to others in order to get what one needs.


Honestly...yeah, I'm a bit surprised that there is such secrecy...(yup, seems secretive to me)...considering they're not even telling Christine what is going on with Bee. I do understand where you are coming from Diana...but it still seems shady to me.
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Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:21 pm

It only seems shady on this side of the conversation. I'm sure from their side it appears that they are under heavy attack from a lot of fronts that are willing to become very nasty. If they are shady, then no surprise they are hiding..if they are not shady (maybe just new or in uncharted waters) they are circling the wagons to protect from, what must appear to them, to be a bunch of rabid idiots.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 15th, 2010, 11:25 pm

airwalk wrote:It only seems shady on this side of the conversation. I'm sure from their side it appears that they are under heavy attack from a lot of fronts that are willing to become very nasty. If they are shady, then no surprise they are hiding..if they are not shady (maybe just new or in uncharted waters) they are circling the wagons to protect from, what must appear to them, to be a bunch of rabid idiots.


Really?

So they lied about Bee...completely lied, made up all sorts of crap about her...and they're *not* shady? :| Why are you siding with them so strongly? Just curious...I'm just not getting it...
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Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:27 pm

I'm not siding with anyone. I really wish people would quit putting words in my mouth. You asked a question, I gave you an answer from what I know of how that world works.

I also already had this conversation with Christine. As distasteful as it is, what that rescue did is not unusual. Read the posts on FB every day of the week. OMG he's going to die tomorrow...OMG it's a heartstick shelter..OMG it's a hellhole save this baby. It is done all over the nation by thousands of rescues and shelters. I don't like it, I don't do it, but there is nothing unusual about that tactic.
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Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:30 pm

Erin you don't have to take my word for it..ask Vi, Jeanine, Jenn...ask them if they've ever seen a rescue pull that nonsense?

Hell I had one rescue list one of my dogs they pulled from our shelter as "being saved at the last possible moment from a HIgh Kill Shelter...almost stolen from the euthanasia table"/
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Postby mnp13 » November 15th, 2010, 11:35 pm

airwalk wrote:I also already had this conversation with Christine. As distasteful as it is, what that rescue did is not unusual. Read the posts on FB every day of the week. OMG he's going to die tomorrow...OMG it's a heartstick shelter..OMG it's a hellhole save this baby. It is done all over the nation by thousands of rescues and shelters. I don't like it, I don't do it, but there is nothing unusual about that tactic.


I agree, what the rescue did with Bee is not unusual. Annoying as all hell, but very common place.

However, what they did with Dozia?? No. That is NOT how any ethical rescue works. Adopting out an intact dog, getting said dog back, then trying to get it killed because it's in heat and is difficult to deal with? No. Not ok... in any version of the story. And that information has been verified.
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Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:41 pm

I don't disagree. But what exactly has been accomplished with this form of attack...let's see...the rescue has blocked, shut down and otherwise is completely hiding any information and not responding to any inquiries; therefore, everything from that point on is purely conjecture.

Wouldn't it have served better purposes to approach more slowly and cautiously and ask polite questions and make inquiries that could and perhaps would have been responded to? Wouldn't it have been better to be in a position of having a conversation and gathering factual information instead of relying on conjecture.

Wouldn't it have been better to have been in a position (like any good investigator would have) to know where the dogs are and perhaps be able to assist?

Apparently many folks didn't think so. They thought it would be better to gather their swords and beat their chests about the horrible ethics and to make accusations very publicly and to ensure that if the rescue does have something to hide...they really hide it now.

I'm sure any of our Officers would have handled it exactly the same way, because after all it has given everyone results....right?
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 15th, 2010, 11:41 pm

Okay, well if you're not siding with them, you seem to be against many of us that are angry about what they've done. Angie and I have a personal issue...but I've kept it from this forum for the most part...so I'm honestly surprised that she suddenly lumped me into this mess. The whole thing just went real crazy, real fast.

As for the petfinder posting...trust me...I run in rescue circles too...I know what rescues can and will do to get dogs adopted. And yes, I've developed a thicker skin...and I get tired of all of the sad, sob stories that I see on FB and elsewhere nowadays...URGENT, LAST MINUTE!, NEEDS SAVING!

OTOH, I am really questioning the adopting out an intact dog, then apparently wanting to have her euthanized. Everyone knows that I'm no stranger to wanting to euth rescue dogs...so I'm not *upset*, just curious. My vet has helped me put at least one dog down...and took my word for it, so I wonder about this story.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 15th, 2010, 11:43 pm

airwalk wrote:I don't disagree. But what exactly has been accomplished with this form of attack...let's see...the rescue has blocked, shut down and otherwise is completely hiding any information and not responding to any inquiries; therefore, everything from that point on is purely conjecture.

Wouldn't it have served better purposes to approach more slowly and cautiously and ask polite questions and make inquiries that could and perhaps would have been responded to? Wouldn't it have been better to be in a position of having a conversation and gathering factual information instead of relying on conjecture.

Wouldn't it have been better to have been in a position (like any good investigator would have) to know where the dogs are and perhaps be able to assist?

Apparently many folks didn't think so. They thought it would be better to gather their swords and beat their chests about the horrible ethics and to make accusations very publicly and to ensure that if the rescue does have something to hide...they really hide it now.

I'm sure any of our Officers would have handled it exactly the same way, because after all it has given everyone results....right?


From what I understood, Christine asked via email about the listing...and they immediately unfriended/blockked her from the FB page, and listed Bee as "adopted". WTF?
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Postby airwalk » November 15th, 2010, 11:56 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Okay, well if you're not siding with them, you seem to be against many of us that are angry about what they've done. Angie and I have a personal issue...but I've kept it from this forum for the most part...so I'm honestly surprised that she suddenly lumped me into this mess. The whole thing just went real crazy, real fast.


Nope not against anyone being angry for the way this went down by the rescue. Not against anyone that isn't thrilled...just having a major issue with folks that are usually reasonably intelligent seeming to have left their brains and communication skills outside when they came indoors.

TheRedQueen wrote:As for the petfinder posting...trust me...I run in rescue circles too...I know what rescues can and will do to get dogs adopted. And yes, I've developed a thicker skin...and I get tired of all of the sad, sob stories that I see on FB and elsewhere nowadays...URGENT, LAST MINUTE!, NEEDS SAVING!/quote]


Then you know as well as I do that this crap goes on all over, all the time. It is distasteful. I don't do it...but I'm damn sure not going to single out one rescue for doing something that is so common practice that no one blinks anymore over the drama and lies that are told.


TheRedQueen wrote:OTOH, I am really questioning the adopting out an intact dog, then apparently wanting to have her euthanized. Everyone knows that I'm no stranger to wanting to euth rescue dogs...so I'm not *upset*, just curious. My vet has helped me put at least one dog down...and took my word for it, so I wonder about this story.


Now there is a very legitimate question and one people should have been focused on, but I can assure you going into attack mode did nothing for gathering information or gaining facts or being in a position to effect change. It caused a complete and total shut down. I completely wonder about this story...much of it makes no sense and sets of my bullshit meter....but since all avenues of conversation have been screwed, there is no way for me to try to get factual information.

I repeat, any of the Officers that work for our County would look at the attacking folks here and wonder what the hell they hoped to accomplish....you get more flies with honey than vinegar...and the same goes for information.

From what I understood, Christine asked via email about the listing...and they immediately unfriended/blockked her from the FB page, and listed Bee as "adopted". WTF?


and that, perhaps, should have been the first clue to everyone to back up, breathe and consider the entire situation, what the goal was and how best to accomplish it...instead it seems to have sounded the charge brigade and everyone stopped thinking, IMHO
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Postby LMM » November 16th, 2010, 10:00 am

mnp13 wrote:
airwalk wrote:I also already had this conversation with Christine. As distasteful as it is, what that rescue did is not unusual. Read the posts on FB every day of the week. OMG he's going to die tomorrow...OMG it's a heartstick shelter..OMG it's a hellhole save this baby. It is done all over the nation by thousands of rescues and shelters. I don't like it, I don't do it, but there is nothing unusual about that tactic.


I agree, what the rescue did with Bee is not unusual. Annoying as all hell, but very common place.

However, what they did with Dozia?? No. That is NOT how any ethical rescue works. Adopting out an intact dog, getting said dog back, then trying to get it killed because it's in heat and is difficult to deal with? No. Not ok in any version of the story. And that information has been verified.



The problem Michelle is there are far too many unethical rescues operating out there so no, not even what was done with Dozia is unusual. Rescue groups find "reasons" all the time to euth perfectly healthy dogs that they are not moving fast enough for their liking. And the intact thing, unfortunately also not unusual.

Angie's page is still active, it seems like she chose to block quite a few people.

My only concern is Dozia and Bee. Last I knew there was a rescue group actively working on Dozia and were in the process of moving her from the vet where she was boarded. I have no idea on Bee and I wish I did. I don't care if they are circling their wagons, listing her as adopted minutes after they are questioned and then removing her from petfinder completely only makes them look bad. Forever.

Unfortunately we are not talking about a well known and well respected rescue here or I would contact them directly to discuss things. We are talking about a little known rescue operating on their own rules everyone else be damned, especially the dogs it seems.
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 16th, 2010, 11:36 am

btw, I just got a friend request from Angie last night... :| I just don't know anymore...lol
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Postby iluvk9 » November 16th, 2010, 5:06 pm

Maybe Angie wants you to be her friend so she can tell you her side of what has transpired? And I don't mean that in a "tell you in a gossipy way". Dozia was her foster and I am sure she was attached to her and was sideswiped by all that has happened. And when I say "all that has happened", I mean finding a rescue that didn't turn out to be reputable... to all of whatever is happening on facebook.

****Please note*** I am carefully chosing my words and re-explaining them. :neener:
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Postby HappyChick » January 17th, 2011, 3:06 pm

I came here initially today to check up on Truman's progress after surgery. Then I started to think I was brave enough to look around the forum. For what it is or is not worth to you, I'll explain myself in regard to the questions in this thread because I do know that I still have a few friends here. I also have a bond that in my heart will never be completely broken because of the help I received here when Vinny was sick.

1) Dozia - Dozia never went to the adoptive home that was lined up for her when I took her to Tammi. Tammi decided the people were not right for Dozia. Instead, Dozia went to a foster in WI. I did not know about this right away, but when I did find out I talked to Tammi and understood her reasoning. I thought it was valid. A few weeks after that Tammi told me Dozia had been destructive at the foster home so Tammi was placing her at a different foster. She told me some things that didn't sound correct about Dozia's behavior, but I believed her thinking the foster home just didn't know how to handle Dozia and that Tammi was taking steps to remedy the situation.

Shortly after that conversation (I don't remember the exact amount of days/weeks) Tammi called and asked if I could find a different rescue for Dozia or take her back myself. I could not take her back, but I started working to find a different rescue. Tammi told me Dozia was safe in boarding somewhere. I contacted a girl who has now become a dear friend, Tracey, for help. Tracey decided she would get Dozia into Animal House. She contacted Tammi to get info on Dozia. Tracey and Tammi got into a nasty message exchange which resulted in Tammi saying she would not let anyone have Dozia. Mind you she'd just asked me to find a rescue, now she decided the people I found were not good enough. We were afraid that Tammi may have put Dozia down already because Tammi kept talking about how much money Dozia had cost her. Tracey and I decided we needed to figure out where Dozia was if possible. I got the idea to call Tammi's vet and see if they knew anything about Dozia, specifically if Tammi had her euthed. I still had the vet info from when Tammi had emailed it to me for Bee's transport. I called and spoke with Dr. Chaudry who much to my surprise told me he was boarding Dozia at his animal hospital. He told me that Dozia was a very good girl, just hyper. He did not mention anything to me about Tammi wanting Dozia euthanized. He also told me he would not release Dozia to anyone but Tammi.

Tracey sent two of her friends to Dr. Chaudry's the next day. They were the ones he told that Tammi had brought Dozia to him to be euthanized because she was hyper and in heat. He refused to euth her. He also refused to let them have Dozia. Meanwhile, my cousin and friend, Dawn, who introduced me to Tammi was talking to Tammi on the phone just about everyday to try to get her to give up Dozia to us. Tammi finally agreed and gave consent to Dr. Chaudry for Animal House/Tracey to pick up Dozia. By this time, Tracey was making other arrangements because Animal House did not have room for Dozia. In the couple of days between when Dawn convinced Tammi to give up Dozia and when Tracey found a place for Dozia, Tammi changed her mind and told Dr. Chaudry not to let ANYONE have Dozia. By this time Tammi had blocked me on FB and was not taking my calls. There were tons of calls and communications going on in regard to this whole mess. All of these twists and turns occurred very quickly in less than a week.

We were all shocked and stunned at Tammi's double cross. Tammi even had the nerve to text Dawn that she'd (Tammi) had found an adopter for Dozia and Tammi was very happy about that. Fortunately, Tammi did not get away with her double cross. I do not know for certain the person who has Dozia now or where she is located. I don't want to know because I don't want to give Tammi any chance at finding Dozia and getting her back. What I do know is that Dozia is safe and happy, and Tammi did not get her hands on Dozia in the end. Nor did Tammi make any profit from Dozia. Dozia is living with other dogs, she gets along great with them. She is spayed now and she is getting over the trauma of what Tammi did to her. Knowing she is safe and happy is the only allowance I will give myself to let go of some of the guilt.

Beezus - At the time Beezus came to Illinois, she went to Billi, not to Tammi. Billi is Tammi's niece, but they are very different people. I did not know that Tammi was mistreating Dozia in the fashion stated above, when I arranged to send Beezus to their rescue. IF I had, I would have never let Tammi take Beezus into her rescue. I saw the BS Petfinder and sent Billi a message asking for the information to be corrected, thinking Tammi had just gotten Bee's story mixed up with some other dog's story. Billi said Tammi would correct it. When the crap hit the fan about Dozia, I contacted Billi and told her I would take Beezus from her because I could no longer work with their rescue. I also told her I felt responsible for Beezus. I did not get a response. I called and left voicemails, and emailed. I demanded Beezus be turned over to me when I was getting no response by being civil. This is the same time frame that all the postings about this were hitting the PBT forum. Dawn, the diplomatic one, talked with Billi, and Billi told her she decided to keep Beezus because she and her family had fallen in love with Bee. There was nothing else I could do at that point. At the beginning of December (one month later), I was contacted by Billi. Billi's other dog had swallowed a bottle cap that caused a blockage and had emergency surgery to the tune of $1400. Billi's husband told her they could not keep Beezus now because they could not afford medical care for more than one dog if something were to happen to Bee too. Billi asked my help to rehome Bee. Billi also told me she had not spoken to her Aunt Tammi since the whole Dozia thing went down, Tammi was not returning Billi's calls or emails. Billi also told me she is no longer in the "rescue" business or associated with that rescue. I worked on finding Beezus a new home for a couple of weeks, then Billi let me know she had a good friend who wanted Beezus so he and his mother "came down", met Bee, and took her home. Again, Tammi nor her "rescue" made any money off of Bee either. Bee is happy in her new home.

Tammi - She had a DNR/DNA posted on her. She was down to 6 animals and not getting any new ones as far as I can tell. Some of the people involved along the way with the Dozia situation reported her to the state of WI, wrote letters, and what not. Unfortunately, she is still somewhat in business. She is not adding dogs to petfinder, but I think she is using craigslist.

Me - I grew to LOVE Dozia while I was fostering her. I could not keep her because Reno did not like her AT ALL. Leni didn't like her much either. I know what I can handle and what I can't, and I knew I could not handle keeping her here yet separating them all. Kudos to those of you who do that long term. I did not want to give up Dozia, but I thought it was the best thing for all involved for her to go to a home without the tension that she felt her with my dogs. Plus, Tammi had such a good home lined up for Dozia at the time. I cried and cried the day I took her to Tammi. Those of you who foster, know what I mean.

During the time when Tammi asked me to find a different rescue for Dozia, I was being civil and diplomatic at first. Then when Tammi and Tracey had there argument and Tammi said nobody was going to get Dozia, even me; I sent Tammi a threatening email. I threatened to put her out of business and I threatened her with a law suit if she did not give Dozia back to me. (I didn't leave Bee out, THAT email was sent to Billi) I made a HUGE mistake and sent that email from my work email address although I did it on my own time at home. Tammi sent a version of that email to the President of my university with a statement that she was scared of me because I had sent her a "vicious pit bull". She also asked him to address the issue of a university employee sending a threatening email using the university's resources. Tammi tried to get me fired. It didn't work, but I did receive a written warning. I had to sit through embarrassing meetings and defend myself and my love of dogs. After Lauralei goes to her rescue this weekend, I'm done fostering unless it is just for a day or two. I am done placing dogs into rescues for friends. Shelter dogs, yes, friends' dogs, no, requests from the public, maybe.

Facebook - I did deactivate my account. That is why some of you couldn't find me. I was bound and determined to never foster or place into rescue another dog. I also needed to get as far away from dogs and dog people as I could. I was being bombarded with questions and accusations from all sides, let along the guilt I imposed on myself. After a few days of talking with Dawn & Tracey, and reflecting on the whole situation, I decided to get back on FB. I started adding friends back. Some people found me and sent friend requests. I am slowly adding people back, but I only have about half the people on my friends list that I once had.

My postings on PBT - I owe most of you an apology and I am sorry. At the time of my ranting posts, I was about to have a nervous breakdown from all that had transpired. I was drinking heavily because I was an emotional wreck and had gone through so much hell in such a short time. I do not use the drinking as an excuse, I am responsible for my actions regardless. I took everything very, very personally whether it was or was not meant that way. My apology goes out to all involved regardless of what I think of you or you think of me. I am sorry for not handling things better.

I did not post this to drum up a thousand more questions about every little detail of these situations with Dozia and Bee, or for some drama effect. I know I left some of you hanging and wondering. Because of my emotional state over this whole mess, it has taken me this long to decide it is time to post this. If anyone has a burning question that you feel must be answered, please email me at award321@gmail.com . I'll answer it if I can. Sorry this post is so long, but I hope it is helpful to you.
Angie & crew

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Postby iluvk9 » January 17th, 2011, 3:13 pm

Angie, that was very kind of you to see how my Truman is doing. Thank you.

I am sorry you have had such a difficult time and turned to alcohol. I am sure it affected many areas of your life.

While you feel you owe an apology, I do not think so. As Maya Angelou said: "When I knew better, I did better".
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Postby madremissy » January 17th, 2011, 4:00 pm

:hug3:
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Postby TheRedQueen » January 17th, 2011, 6:49 pm

We're cool...and thanks for clearing everything up...that took some guts. :)
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Postby DemoDick » January 17th, 2011, 7:58 pm

I stopped drinking when I realized that being an asshole came naturally to me. No need for chemical assistance to get to "that place".

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Postby mnp13 » January 17th, 2011, 10:10 pm

Angie, thank you for posting, and I mean that sincerely.
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