OMG. Those with kids...

[TheRedQueen]

is it to much to ask for an apology from a 7-8 year old?

Say, a kid that didn't stop and think as she went through the gate in the fence...and let dogs get out...including one boarding dog, which took off down the road. Then proceeded to chase the FOSTER around the drive-way, letting the boarding dog run down the road, letting two resident dogs wander through the gate...INSTEAD of coming to get me to let me know. Then after having to chase down one dog in the street, after I yell and rant and scream, and ask..."did anyone else get out", she says..."no one else got out." Then we realize that, NO, another boarding dog is missing...and found (luckily) in the driveway also.

After all of this commotion, where I'm a shaking, sweating, terrified mess...and she's yelled at to go "SIT ON THE COUCH!" She sits quietly on the couch and then speaks..."oh look...the cats are playing with that feather toy."

SERIOUSLY?


She knows I'm mad...yet nothing about "gee, sorry"

Does she really not "get it" or is she just not up to accepting responsibility...

I don't have kids...I don't really know.

[pitbullmamaliz]

[Malli]

um, when I made mistakes when I was little my mum made me apologize.

IMO she also lied because she told you no one else had gotten out when they had, which, in my house, would definitely warrant an apology and perhaps a punishment from my parents.

Is this John's kid?

That is really, really lame

[PoodleMaMaKat]

Sounds like you had a busy morning.

[PetieMarie22]

Oh WOW! Yeah - sounds like heart attack material!! Does the girl understand what she did and what could have happened? I would make sure she knows! But yes, an apology is definatly in order!

[iluvk9]

Are you sure it wasn't my nun????

[maberi]

I'm one of those weird people who think kids should be treated like little adults. So yeah, an apology is definitely in order

[Hoyden]

I see several issues here.

1) Letting dogs out of the gate. Is she allowed to open the gate without adult supervision?
2) She didn't get an adult right away.
3) She chased dogs.
4) She lied

Gremlin is 8 years old. Eight year olds are not too bright sometimes. Mark calls it "Eight year old Idiocy". They have common sense, they just don't apply it consistently.

Gremlin would have made some inane comment even though she knows we are madder than hell. That's how they try to diffuse the incident by redirecting your attention. However, Gremlin would have apologized for being stupid & expected to be punished for it. She doesn't lie often because the consequences are very very unpleasant & involve mind numbing odious chores.

Had this child been the Gremlin, she would be doing poop duty in your yard, cleaning out crates & dog dishes and whatever yucky chores that needed to be done that she was capable of, like washing out trash cans.

For lying, she would be handing in all her electronics, dvd player, mp3 player, cd player, PSP, Nintendo etc. She would also be banned from computer & TV.

[mnp13]

Yes, she should apologize, and since she lied she should be in trouble.

[TheRedQueen]

Okay...thanks all...I wasn't sure if I was holding her to something that she wasn't capable of...but it seemed to me if you can lie about it, you can apologize for it...ya know?

Yeah, it's John's youngest daughter. To her defense, I did tell her to go shut the hose off (it's outside of the gate)...and stupidly went inside for a second (to grab the camera)...but she's been around packs of dogs since she was a baby, and has been told repeatedly to make sure that dogs are clear of the gate/door/etc. So...badly handled on my part too.

I don't think I'm getting an apology...it's not a big thing with her mother...personal responsibility is not handled at all. And this is not the first time she's lied to me...when she thinks she'll be in trouble...which is my bigger problem. Own up to what you've done, and I'll not be nearly as mad...

She started to cry before I took her home (I told he to stay on the couch and not do anything...I came back in and she was reading a book!). John said goodbye, and she started crying more...he asked..."what's wrong?" Her response..."I'm sad because I let the dogs out." Which I think she said more because she was upset about me yelling at her, and taking her stuff away...

Well, next time she won't be given privileges with the dogs...and she'll be supervised 100% of the time...too bad for her.

[BigDogBuford]

She started to cry before I took her home (I told he to stay on the couch and not do anything...I came back in and she was reading a book!). John said goodbye, and she started crying more...he asked..."what's wrong?" Her response..."I'm sad because I let the dogs out." Which I think she said more because she was upset about me yelling at her, and taking her stuff away...

That sounds more like she's being manipulative to me.

[TheRedQueen]

She started to cry before I took her home (I told he to stay on the couch and not do anything...I came back in and she was reading a book!). John said goodbye, and she started crying more...he asked..."what's wrong?" Her response..."I'm sad because I let the dogs out." Which I think she said more because she was upset about me yelling at her, and taking her stuff away...

That sounds more like she's being manipulative to me.

Yeah...you too?

She used to be a royal little bitch...but seems to have chilled lately...this was our first episode for a while.

[amazincc]

She used to be a royal little bitch...

This is a 7/8- year old girl you're talking about?
I have a totally different take on this.

[LMM]

I have a slightly different take on this as well but I will tell you, my child would have apologized. That's the first thing out of her mouth when she's done something wrong "I'm sorry" coupled with a healthy wail

I don't know, maybe she was scared because of what happened? Just reading that scared the crap out of me. Some kids shut down in the face of that. I don't know her like you do so...

I'm so glad none of the dogs were hurt! Crisis

[ArtGypsy]

Well, I would have had a TOTAL heart attack when all those dogs started running out the gate/down the street....
Kinda reminds me of ADULTS who are told a million times NOT to try and put out a small fire, but call fire department immediately.....((I for one have been guilty of this))....

If you *Really* want my take on this, (what little I know of this particular kiddo, which is nothing), just let me know.....
Otherwise, I'll keep my opinions to myself.....

[Hoyden]

Erin - feel free to tell me to shut up if you'd like, I won't be offended.

I was thinking about this while drilling holes in the wall for shelves & a policy that a friend has in her home came to mind.

Just because the girls are not held accountable for their actions & taught personal responsibility at home with their mother does not mean that you and John should have to deal with her parenting decisions.

The key is that you & John need to sit down, discuss & agree how you want to teach these values in your home and make a plan to do it. You will also need to sit the girls down, explain the rules and consequences for failure to obey those rules and stick to it.

Teaching the girls that honesty is the best policy and owning up to their mistakes is important. Talk with them & discuss how they are feeling about situations like what happened today, what can be done to prevent that from happening again & remind them of the rules and let them know why they are important. Most kids don't break rules to be bad, they just forget, that should be addressed too.

Sometimes kids don't quite click WHY accidentally letting the dogs out can be a very bad thing. Letting her know that they could get hit by a car, get lost, get into a fight with another dog etc or worse, you might have to tell the owner of a boarding dog that their dog was hit by a car and talk about how everyone would feel about that.

We've found that when we discuss WHY we have certain rules & what could happen if that rule isn't followed, the girls are more inclined to remember & follow them.

All those lessons on positive reinforcement for the dogs? They work well on kids too. Trust me on that one. I went to many many parenting classes to avoid the mistakes my parents made. They were useless. The most useful information I learned came from dog training classes.

[airwalk]

Erin, I'm the same way..I don't think at 7 that while there are times they "get it"..there are many more they don't. They don't think ahead very well and rarely understand consequences. I agree that a conversation (calmly) about what could have happened and why it is so very important that the dogs not be ever let out of the gate is definitely in order.

A conversation about why honesty is the very best policy and that she will be in far less trouble if she tells you the truth. It's really hard to tell the truth when you know someone is extremely pissed at you...it's doubly hard when you're 7 and can't tell them off.

I think all 7 year olds are manipulative...it's in the genes.

I'm pretty sure she knew you were pissed, I would have been too. So while I get why you were mad and I get she lied...and I get it was stupid...7 year olds just aren't very good yet at seeing how they impact the world..they completely get how the world impacts them.

[madremissy]

Erin, I'm the same way..I don't think at 7 that while there are times they "get it"..there are many more they don't. They don't think ahead very well and rarely understand consequences. I agree that a conversation (calmly) about what could have happened and why it is so very important that the dogs not be ever let out of the gate is definitely in order.

A conversation about why honesty is the very best policy and that she will be in far less trouble if she tells you the truth. It's really hard to tell the truth when you know someone is extremely pissed at you...it's doubly hard when you're 7 and can't tell them off.

I think all 7 year olds are manipulative...it's in the genes.

I'm pretty sure she knew you were pissed, I would have been too. So while I get why you were mad and I get she lied...and I get it was stupid...7 year olds just aren't very good yet at seeing how they impact the world..they completely get how the world impacts them.

Same thing I was thinking, just couldn't say it as well as Diana. The main thing I tried to instill in Josh was to always tell the truth. If something bad happens do not be scared to come and tell me. They have to have the trust that you will help them with the problem and handle the consequences later.
I aslo agree with someone else that at 6 or 7 they are just learning some new things. So I would explain how bad the situation could have goon in ways she can understand.
She does need to know the rules and what is expected at your house, but think of ways of training her in a way a 6 year old would understand. That is just my two cents.
Oh yeah, an apology should be expected but you might have to explain and let her know why a Thank you is in order.

[ArtGypsy]

Remember too, that the frontal lobes don't even STOP developing until about TWENTY TWO years of age.

Seven year old kids do silly/careless/mindless/ignorant things while they're learning to become adults.
Mistakes, how those mistakes are handled by the trustworthy adults in their lives, determine what they learn and how well they RETAIN what they experience for the 'next time' things go wrong.

It was an awful day........for you and for her.
Help her see that you're a person SHE can TRUST.....TRUST not to flip out, Trust to Guide her and Trust you can forgive when she makes a mistake.

I don't know what kind of relationship you've had with these kiddos....and if it's been rocky and the relationship with mom may not be so great, then you're stuck in a tough position.

Like I tell my Parents....When they're flipping out or whatever, BE the 'calm' you need THEM to be.
Kids LEARN by Watching, a hundred times more effectively than by LISTENING....

And NOEL....you hit it on the head...............one ounce of positive reinforcement is worth more than pounds of Yelling and Lecturing...

And please....try and remember how "little' and young 7 or 8 REALLY is. Kids seem to grow so fast, but really...
they're really really **NEW** yet.....

[Malli]

I agree with what Noel said. When I have babysat when I was younger in the past and now with my frieds kids, I always explain the consequences of their actions (not consequences as in punishment, consequences as in, what action their action will produce; e.g. If you are waving that stick around, you might end up hitting yourself, me, or your brother/sister somewhere and that would really hurt), you can also ask them to explain why not in their own words or initially ask them if they know why they shouldn't do something.

I would be frustrated too, my friend's oldest boy (about 7, I think) can be quite manipulative and has been for couple years and I admit it makes me pretty pissed; luckily for me, most the time I don't have to handle him.

I also agree that you can make your own rules with her while you have her; its like dog training, how many times have you had a friend or family member's dog that doesn't beg from you but does from them, or listens to you better? Same deal IMO